maybe after this turd of an event is finished, DC will put the focus back on Doomsday Clock and what that was supossed to do for the overall state of the DCU.

I think DC abandonend Doomsday Clock, since it feels more like an Elseworld& Barry is blamed again in HIC for New52.

I think HiC seems more like an Elseworld at this point.

Its something else that’s for sure....

Yeah, I can't forgive DC abandoning Doomsday Clock. The comic is fantastic and should be in the limelight right now instead of this dumpster fire.

Totally agree

100% agree

Depends. Love Doomsday Clock so far, but that doesn’t mean DC can’t mess it up. For example if a C hero like Firestorm beat Dr. Manhatten or even Superman would make no sense. I also don’t want another timeline reboot. HIC is canon, even so it doesn’t feel like that.

i wasn't the biggest fan of Doomsday Clock, but even i can admit it's a HECK of a lot better than HIC. ....and if he does, no matter how hard Johns might possibly flop the ending, i'm sure it's gotta be better than this mess!

I hope, but looking at Darkseid War, it’s not likevJohns can’t mess up badly. I hope it won’t be a Darkseid War 2.0. Don’t want to see Dr. Manhattan getting turned into a baby& yes it’s sad, that I have to point that out.

There is no real beginning, middle, or probable end. I see no direction in this story and couldn’t tell you what the importance is to this crisis or the direction it puts DC. A story needs purpose and if it’s not clear, it doesn’t make you brilliant, clever, or crafty. Just tell me a story that has something to hold on too. This feels the same as Batman... ( I know I know he’s the same writer) but it’s soooooo tiring.

Dude, Johns is one of the best writers DC has. He doesn’t make a lot of mistakes. I thought Darkseid War was awesome.

Johns made many mistakes. He wrote the New Gods as total different characters, didn’t get their power level right& messed up 40 years of comic history. He also totally wrote Scarecrow out of character in Blackest Knight. Given the fact, that he ruined my favorite characters, which he succeeded with the New Gods, it’s a surprise I even read Doomsday Clock. Because Johns is worse than any writer for me.

It was New 52 though. Everyone was different. You’re crazy if you think John’s is the worst writer. Just don’t go to Sanctuary, that place is a real downer.

Not that different. Can’t remember Batmans past, power level and character being entirely changed. As bad as HIC is, it didn’t ruin a mass of characters like Johns did in Darkseid War. I’m not. He literally ruined the New Gods. Everything about them. They haven’t recovered from that. They are one of my favorite characters& it says a lot, when I say they would be better off dead right now. As a fan it’s only painful to watch what they were reduced to, thanks to Johns. New52 is still canon. It’s

not like everything is back to normal and all good. Rebirth = New52.

Well, I don't know. New Gods are for the most part a stand-alone entity within the DC universe. Sure, they cross over with other series every once a while, but it's hard to compare them to characters who are on the foreground. New Gods can always be taken by someone who understands them, and writes them right. It wouldn't be a big deal. Now compare that to the total shitshow New 52 was, with Amazons being turned into rapists, Harley's disgusting redesign inside and out, or bastardized Mr. Freeze

Now, with Heroes in Crisis, once more main characters are being butchered to fit King's incoherent joke of a plot. The best thing for these characters would be to completely ignore anything that's happening in this event. Just proceed and never mention it again. Like all the other utter failures DC wants to forget about.

@Darkseid24 aside from Batman & Green Lantern there was a ton different in the New52. Superman was a complete departure from everything pre-new52. Ma & Pa Kent were both dead, be was a loner, he wasn’t married to Lois. heck he wasn’t even dating Lois. they tried to make him mopey and angsty like in Zack Snyder’s MoS. Wonder Woman was completely different too. most notably was her now actually having a Father instead of being made from clay. and they made her origins dark and gritty as well.

@Darkseid24 were you saying Rebirth is not that different from New52? if that's the case then i absolutely agree. i'm really not sure why DC didn't just do a full retcon with Rebirth. not that it matters now that all the good from Rebirth is now over with anyway.

Nihilist - i'd forgotten that the Amazons were turned into rapists! gaddang that was so disgusting & unnecessary!! ...i definitely agree that characters are butchered just to fit King's "story". he just writes all characters the same way. depressed men, and women either bubble heads of just plain mean spirited.

@Nihilist. No. New Gods crossed over with the other characters quite often. Johns New52 JL / Darkseid War erased Kirby’s New Gods, New Gods Vol 3, Fourth World, New Gods Vol 4, Orion& Death of the New Gods so basically everything. He changed their entire background, their appearances, their characters, their relationships, their power level. So no that can’t be fixed with a good writer now. Neither Batman‘s nor Superman‘s past were changed. If Superman suddenly wasn’t an alien from Krypton&

Bruce suddenly wasn’t a rich boy, whose parents were killed& if both suddenly would be incompetent, maybe you could compare, but you can’t. Superman also was fixed. New Gods weren’t. Darkseid still hasn’t recovered from that awful Darkseid War story. Johns also turned Darkseid into a total idiot, who didnt act like himself anymore. Johns didn’t understand the Omega Beams, not the power of the New Gods. Actually he showed no knowledge at all for them. Neither did he show any respect for their

characters, since he turned characters like Metron or Darkseid into jokes. Both haven’t recovered& I doubt they ever will. While HIC is a crappy story it doesn’t have such a big impact on the characters like Johns stories. Batman, Superman etc. both are still acting like themselves in normal stories. Even if it messes up Wally, that’s one character, New Gods are at least 30 ruined characters by Johns.

@myconius Yes I did, because it’s still the same timeline& still the same character interpretations. Just some Pre52 elements were brought back.

Dude, New 52 was a different interpretation of the New Gods. I don’t even think Johns came up with them. Other than Darkseid and some others. I think most of those interpretations came up in Green Lantern after Johns left. I could be wrong on that though. Before New 52, the New Gods were completely killed and Morrison had them Darkseid inhabiting Turpin. That was way worse than New 52.

Rebirth fixed some terrible retcons. Nora is confirmed to be Victor's wife despite how Snyder ruined that completely. Wally West returned... for a while, at least. Amazons are't rapists anymore. I'm optimistic that New Gods could be saved. If there is a writer who just plain ignores what happened in New 52 and brings the glory days back. And hey, I'm supposed to be the negative one here :P

Nihilist - i wonder if DC will ever realize that they need to get back to good will that was started with Rebirth. ...a dark depressing version of the DCU just doesn't have the staying power to keep the company afloat.

i wish they'd just do a full retcon. start fresh. but this time build a hopeful universe for the heroes. not some twisted version.

Johns, in your opinions, may or may not have ruined the new God’s. Honestly, I can’t chime in on that since I didn’t really follow them much. BUT, Darkseid was made a baby and Snyder had Batman carry him around in a baby carrier. THATS hard to recover from. King is ruining Batman and has been for so long now and will continue to do so for like 30 more issues!!!! Wally is dead after bringing him back for what appears to be no reason of value, booster gold is ruined, Harley is just weird,

And king continues to think his writing is witty and somehow new agey. I could argue king has done more damage than any of the new 52 did, especially to a character that’s Been around for 80 years!!!

@Talon1load Final Crisis sucked indeed, but at least it didn’t erase the history of the characters. They still interacted with each other& yes New52 Green Lantern contributed to it, but it started with Johns Justice League Vol. 1. Darkseid‘s eyes getting cut out already didn’t make any sense, if you read Fourth World. New Gods were terribly changed there& Darkseid War continued with it. I’d rather have them dead than basically getting raped like that. Didio wanted to kill them, Morrison just did

The job& only the New Gods from Apokolips died after FC, Higfather, Mister Miracle etc. we’re all reborn. @ Nihilist Im not do sure about Mr. Freeze, I hope so though. As for New Gods I doubt it, since it’s been almost 3 years& it’s still terrible. JL Odyssey probably will end up bad too. Darkseid is the only New God left& he gets protected by some C heroes. Female Furies portrays male New Gods as sexist assholes. I doubt it. They are dead basically. @myconius I don’t want another reboot, they

should just make stories, that do the characters justice. There were stories I really loved lately, but also stories, that are terrible like HIC or Batman. @Dispatchdcu King definitely did, but I don’t put it on the same level like New Gods, because Detective Comics, the Laughing Batman etc. all portray Batman as nothing has happened, but New Gods are awfully portrayed since New52 started. And I know what I’m talking about, I’ve read all their comucs from 70 to 2019.

We need an edit option here *

Oh, snap, I forgot about recent Female Furies. Yeah, nevermind, all hope os gone then, if that's the status quo DC pursues.

when will DC wake up? ...you'd think the dropping sales forcing them to produce less titles might give them a clue.

Seeing the current state of affairs at Marvel, I doubt that. Their bestsellers are almost exclusively freshly restarted #1s, DC, for now, is still running on good reputation they've gained with Rebirth. But even that seems to be running out. Is anybody surprised by that, when all 4 main characters of DC have, at best, super mediocre comics, and the rest is utter trash?

@Nihilist. Yeah I’m not sure how canon Female Furies is, since it relies more on Jack Kirby’s version, but doesn’t do it justice. It’s either an Elseworld or it retells the origin of the New Gods. Same goes for Mister Miracle, what also wasn’t better. Status Quo currently is JL Odyssey, meaning all New Gods except Darkseid are dead& he’s trying to get his power back/ New Gods back. I however doubt he will be successful. JL Odyssey delivers the best portrayal of Darkseid since Death of The New

Gods, but it also can’t keep up with Pre52 stories. It depends on how it will end. Sales aren’t that bad for DC: The Batman Who Laughs was the best selling title, so is Batman& HIC. Quality wise I’m fine with everything Batman related.

Sales do not equal quality.

Sure, but it shows, that DC has no real reason to step away from King or change that much. Even with Ric. People complain, but sales aren’t that different from, when Dick was still Dick.

Sales are different though. While it’s one of their top sellers, it’s still around 20K lower than the previous writer. So, that’s a real issue. Dido doesn’t seem to have much business sense though and refuses to make corrections to his failed ideas.

I can’t imagine Kings stories selling lower than Snyder’s Gordon Batman story. That one was awful. However Pre52 stories were of better quality. It already became bad, when FC happened, but it turned really bad when New52 started. Even so some stories were ok.