/74.jpg "Amazing Spider-Man #74")
• It's AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #875, and the whole ASM team is coming together to bring you a massive issue that is the culmination of three years of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN!
• It's all lead to this... "Hunted," "Sins Rising," "Last Remains," "King's Ransom," "Chameleon Conspiracy," "Sinister War"...and so much more all led to this climax and conclusion to Nick Spencer's landmark run on the best comic book in the world.
• What will happen with Peter and MJ, Mysterio, J. Jonah Jameson, Norman Osborn, Aunt May and Kindred?! FIND OUT HERE!
Rated T+
I honestly expected the reaction to this issue to actually be worse than it is. I didn't think OMD was getting undone, but now it's canon enough that MJ and Peter will stay together, which is all I wanted. Get rid of the half-assed romance subplots. Let Peter grow. I think this issue is a good example of reader assumption, and writer implication.
So first, reader assumption. Obviously, everyone thought this run was going to undo, or effectively undo, One More Day. We didn't get that. I see a lot of angry comments about Kindred's plan changing, or their reasoning changing, and that's not the case. We just assumed, as readers, that when Kindred was talking about Peter's and Norman's sins, they were talking about Peter making a deal with Mephisto and Norman being a terrible father. In actually, it was Gabriel and Sarah hating Norman for rejecting them and killing their mother, and Peter for not taking what they deemed his responsibility in Gwen's death. This explains why Kindred was mad about Peter reconciling with his other love interests like Black Cat, or why they said they'd protect MJ from him, and why it would be his fault when she did die. Look, I know Kindred's narration gets a lot of shit, but if you actually read it in light of these current issues' revelations, it actually makes perfect sense. The reader assumption was this was all about One More Day, and that was pulled out from under us last minute by editorial. The reality is it was just as much about Sins Past as it was about One More Day, if not more so.
Next, writer implication. This is the part where I give Nick Spencer (and the editors) some shit too. Clearly, they failed in some part to firmly establish a twist that is satisfying instead of annoying. I personally don't mind the Sins Past twist, or really, any of the retcons this run has facilitated, but plenty of people do. And I can't blame the readers solely for what they assumed, because the writer (and editors) certainly implied things. Nick Spencer knew he was opening pandora's box here, and the editors did too. You don't do that without a plan that is followed through on entirely. You play with fire, you are almost certainly getting burned. And that's why the fan response is so mixed. I don't know if Nick Spencer planned on leaving at this point, if editorial forced him off, or if he suddenly left. From the backup letter by Nick Lowe, the next run had its big summit in December 2020, and presumably didn't just manifest then, so obviously, it was planned to end here for a while. The whole point of this is if you imply certain things in your work, you need to address it in a satisfactory way, and a sudden mad dash for the end does not make that happen. I don't know what or why the run just suddenly kicked into overdrive so fast that Nick Spencer had to get co-writers on board just to get it done. That's not normal and wouldn't normally be planned, but again, it must have been because Beyond has been in the works for what's probably over a year now. I'm sure we'll hear all about it in 10 or 20 years.
So, is this issue a satisfying conclusion to the run as a whole? Yes, I believe so. The first issue of the run said this was about Peter and MJ, and despite many attempts at making it not about that, in the end, that's what the entire thing has been about. They're able to beat back the literal devil with their love, save their friend from torment, and Peter overcame the overbearing guilt that sort of haunts this run, if you go back and re-read it. And their child is going to literally defeat the devil in the future. I know there's a lot of doubt about that tease, and the future of MJ and Peter, but we've seen from the Beyond era that they're sticking together. I don't see Marvel going back on that, because they've made such a big deal about it, he's with (a version of) MJ in the movies, and like this run or not, it sold much better than Dan Slott's run. It always hovered at the edge or just inside the top 10.
I get that people wanted more closure on the other subplots this run had, but... to be honest, we got that with the other arcs. We don't need to see Randy and Beetle living together, we don't need to see JJJ angry about Spider-Man still, Teresa doesn't need a page where she looks at herself in the mirror and is confident about it. We got the ending to those things back in other arcs. This issue was about Mephisto, Peter, Harry, Norman and MJ, with Kindred as pawns. I said it in one of my other reviews, but this run seemed damned if it did and damned if it didn't with a lot of things. Fans were complaining about the filler stories, and then they were complaining about the Kindred stuff, and then we don't get absolute closure on the once deemed filler stories, and people are still mad. I don't know what to do here, honestly. The pandora's box was opened, and it won't be closed.
I don't think this is a bad run, not at all, and I'm sure it reads much better in trade. In fact, I actually bought the entire thing in trade, and I wanted to do an in-depth review of the entire run where I really delve into it. I wanted to do that much earlier on, and thank god I didn't. Especially when I just couldn't figure out what Life Theft/Pursuit being referenced could possibly mean. I'll get to that eventually though.
Oh and speaking of, I guess a subtle retcon that may not fully be realized by people is that Harry technically didn't do the whole Life Theft thing. That was a Mephisto-Harry now. Which btw, makes plenty of sense, Harry was not such a schemer in life.
Would I recommend this run to people? Yeah. I think it's good. I might actually get them to sit out the Kindred centric arcs though. It requires a lot of pre-reading, but you know what, one of my friends is reading this run so I guess I'll see how someone who hasn't read any of the stories... elaborated on here feels. She's desperately behind though, so... it'll be a while.
I'm excited for the Beyond era, if only for those covers. There's such a nostalgic feeling to them. But maybe that's just because the first Spider-Man comic I ever bought was Sensational Spider-Man #1. It wasn't the first one I had read, but it certainly holds a special place in my heart.
I'm taking a half a point off for that Uncle Ben story, it just wasn't very good. I appreciate the attempt. The history two-page spread was fun, and the Beyond story is probably confusing to a bunch of people. I will say, I would've rather had the entire issue just be Nick Spencer's finale. 20 or so more pages could've been used to monologue about sins.
© 2025
If Kindred makes sense to you and understood it, I gotta ask. So was Kindred Harry or the Stacy twins? Because this issue seems to retcon the last issue's reveal. And I'm so confused which one that was. Was it Harry until the point Mephisto put his soul to gample with Strange and then Stacy Twins got control of the bodies? Or was it the Stacy Twins the whole time? Or was Harry still controlling them during the final battle?
Because, if they were the Stacy twins the whole time, what was the sin they wanted Peter to confess? What was the sin MJ did? What the hell did she ever do to twins? Or hell, what Peter did to them? Because Kindred (I presume Gabe) shouted "you did this to me" in #55. Because I just cannot believe all this was because of Gwen's death, that happened like 50 years ago.
Kindred was the Stacy twins, being controlled by a version of Harry Osborn that was under the influence of Mephisto. So it was both. They wanted Peter to confess to his role in not taking responsibility for the deaths and harm he has caused, specifically Gwen's death. (Note: this is all from their warped perspective). Norman's sins were molding and using them, his "children" as weapons, and then rejecting them. MJ didn't have any sins, Kindred was always saying Peter would end up dooming her.
The twins felt betrayed by Norman and Peter, since Norman used them and Peter abandoned and forgot about them, while they were dying and being tortured in hell. Of course, Peter didn't actually know about that, but again, they're being controlled by Harry Osborn under the influence of Mephisto, so they aren't getting to see Peter's side. This is why they want Peter to take responsibility for the harm he causes, because they see themselves as victims of the same cycle that killed their mother.
I'm still so confused. So was it Harry who spoke to Peter while using their body or the Stacy twins? So were the all three of them tortured in hell? Because what I understood in the dialogue was that it was the Stacy twins talking. Sara even says at one point "Gabe!" And didn't Kindred say to MJ in the last issue "difficult isn't it? Your sins staring back at you reminding you of everyone you let down. Time for you to face your sins." Kindred is clearly talking to MJ at that point about her sins
And in #55 MJ says, "he doesn't remember". Was she alluding he doesn't remember the Stacy twins? And like what was it that Peter did to Gabe? When he shouted "you did this to me?" Or was it Harry talking? I'm not trying to nitpick here, I'm genuinely so confused about this.
Like I said, it's both. Mephisto was basically using Harry Osborn's soul to fuck with everyone, while using Gabriel and Sarah as vessels. All three of them were tortured in Hell, but Gabriel and Sarah were tortured to become stronger, while Harry was just a pawn. I forgot about the part where Kindred told MJ that she was facing her sins, but I'm guessing the change in attitude is due to MJ's play at sacrifice for Peter's sins during Last Remains.
In #55, I don't think she's alluding to anything, I think she's just saying that whatever it is Kindred wants Peter to remember, he clearly doesn't. The Stacy twins are mad at Peter for forgetting them and leaving them to torment and death. Again, Peter didn't intentionally do this, this is just what happened to them because of Mephisto's larger plans. They blame him for it when he isn't actually at fault.
Unlike Norman, who is definitely at fault for his role to play in all this. It literally wouldn't have happened if not for him. This is why Norman apologizes and tries to make up for his sins, whereas Peter realizes he doesn't deserve what Kindred was doing to him.
Okay. So what you are saying is that basically this is bunch of nonsense that was rewritten from the original plan and had no buildup at all. They only way I can make sense of this is that these aren't the same Sara and Gabe that we saw in Sins Past. Weren't they also cured of their rapid-age disease in that? Sara with Peter's blood and Gabe with Goblin Formula?
I think it was the original plan. Everything Kindred said since day one fits with it being the Stacy Twins. I think maybe the plans were rushed, because it just looks that way based on the release schedule of the latter half of this run. But it wasn't rewritten, I don't know where you got that. That's actually really frustrating that you'd make a claim like that. And yeah, of course, this run is retconning Sins Past. The whole "Peter forgot them" thing is an explanation for their long absence.
Like, I don't know how much more I can explain. If you'd rather complain about the book, do that elsewhere. I'm willing to answer your questions to the best of my ability, but not if you're just going to ignore what I said.
I mean it's hard to tell with this. I am genuinely so confused by this and that's where my frustration comes from. Because at some point, it does fit with the Stacy twins, and that there were always two Kindreds (Sara was the one who summoned Sin-Eater and visited Norman and Gabe was the one Peter face in Last Remains). But that doesn't make sense. Harry said in the last issue that Sarah is gone. But I don't think Harry would shout "Gabe" in the final fight or wonder if Gwen would've loved him??
And there are many other moments that don't add up if it were supposed to be the Stacy Twins originally. That's why I would claim that this is rewritten because Spencer is shown to be very precise in his planning and this doesn't feel like it. And when you say it makes perfect sense, I start to ask these questions because I would like someone to explain this to me.
Like I said, it's both Harry's corrupted soul and the Twins. When Mephisto loses his game with Doctor Strange, when MJ gets Spider-Man out of the rubble, Harry's soul is freed. From then till the Kindreds die, it's just Sarah and Gabriel.
Before that, they were under Harry/Mephisto's control. Sarah as the person MJ knew from Sins Past was gone, because she was never really a person.
And that Strange and Mephisto start talking abou Harry Osborns' soul suddenly, when Strange didn't mention it at all before and he was gambling on Peter's soul. All of this revelations and twists come so last-second, it's hard to get that this was all part of the plan.
Peter and MJ were Dr. Strange's "champions," the Kindreds were Mephisto's "champions," with Harry Osborn as a pawn in the whole thing. He went to Mephisto to see what was wrong with Peter, and this issue says it all has to do with Mayday one day taking Mephisto down, and everything else is just a way to beat down Peter and MJ so that their child never actually does it.
And even when rereading this, their dialogue doesn't add up. During the fight, before Harry's soul is released, their dialogue is clearly Gabe and Sara. "Your favored son", "To ignore us! Pretend we don't exist!" And they talk a lot uf us and we. So that would imply it's Sarah and Gabe who are currently in control, not Harry.
It retcons the reasoning for Mephisto getting involved with Peter Parker's life at all, including the deal with Norman, Harry's torment and Sins Past, based on a line from OMD where Mephisto tells Peter and MJ that their child will never be born.
Kindred also calls BND Harry an imposter. It's clearly all three of them.
See that's it. There is no clear answer here. Last issue Harry says "Sarah is gone." And now she is still partly(?) in control of that body. But then why would Harry say "your favorite son will die too. at the hands of the children you abandoned" to Norman? Like what? In #74, it is implicated that twins are in control. If Kindred calls a clone imposter, it doesn't mean that's Harry talking. But that contradicts #73.
It doesn't make sense that both of them are in control at the same time. Harry's soul in Sarah's body. Because they both have clearly different motivations. Mephisto's dialogue implicated it's the twins whole time. At no point in #74 does he even allude that it's Harry who is Kindred. Even when Harry's soul isn't released yet.
The answer is that it's all three of them. Think of it like this. There's Kindred, that is the bodies of Sarah and Gabriel, who is being controlled by a version of Harry Osborn, who thinks he's the mastermind, but in reality, he's just a pawn of Mephisto.
BND Harry explains at some point in the issue, for Peter.
Okay. I understood that was the case in #73. But why on earth would Harry as Kindred talk like his Sarah and Gabriel? Why would he call himself "the favourite son who is killed by the children he forgot" if he is the one who created Sara and Gabe and knows that Norman isn't their father? And why would Mephisto tell to Strange that Kindred is Sara and Gabe who want to send Peter to hell? Why would Harry as Kindred shout to Peter "pretend we don't exist!" if he knows they don't?
And tell to Norman "not admitting you were our fahter while you molded us to be your weapons!" All talk in "us" and "we". All this dialogue from Kindreds clearly show that it's Sarah and Gabe talking the whole time, not Harry, who is supposedly "controlling their bodies".
And also, Kindred(s) kill Harry. If that is Harry in control of their bodies, why would he shout "you loved him so much? join him!" and show no emotion to Peter shouting "that was my best friend you just killed." Why would Harry shout to himself "Gabriel! Are you okay?"
Think of it like multiple personalities, if that makes it easier.
And Mephisto is telling Strange that because that's part of the game they're playing.
... what? You aren't serious are you?
I don't know how to explain it to you better and I'm not willing to repeat myself in hoping you get it this time.
No, I just wanted to see how someone who says gets it tries to explain it. But even then, it doesn't make sense in any capacity and it doesn't fit to the story Spencer wrote. And you do know that you can still enjoy something if you don't get it? No need to claim "it makes perfect sense" to justify your rating?
It does make sense. I feel like you are being intentionally obtuse here. Like, did you even read the issue? That's how bad this looks. I'm sorry if you're genuinely trying, but goddamn, I can't help you.
I tried explaining it multiple times and I just get the same questions back, I don't know what to do next, design a chart with panels from the run explaining the entire thing in hopes that it will make sense to you this time?
It's not worth the back and forth to convince you, but I tried. Maybe someone else can explain it better than I can.
And for you to act like I'm just making the claim that it makes sense to justify my score is really offensive to me, because it implies that I'm pretending to understand something I don't, ergo I'm an idiot.
Just because my explanations don't meet your expectations for answers doesn't mean I don't understand the plot. I've been reading comics forever, and this one is far from the most convoluted I've read. What I think you want is answers here that serve your preconception about this issue, and not genuine answers.
Again, if you're genuinely trying to figure this issue out, sorry, but it really does come across like you're not getting the answer you want, and keep retaliating with more questions, some of which are blatantly answered by the issue if you just read it again.
maybe you can make a case for it making some kind of sense nut a comic book shouldnt be so confusing and far-fetched and convoluted.
We here at Afre™ Productions value when someone sticks to their guts and doesn't waver even when confronted by someone like us. We appreciate you staying cool-headed the whole argument and trying to answer our questions each time. Even when we offended you. For that we apologize and thank you for your time! May you appreciate Spencer's run on ASM evermore! Our commentator wants to have a closing argument for their point:
"maybe I just wanted 20 pages more of Kindred(s) jabbering about sins or something lol"
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@superstan52 Have you ever read a comic?
@Afre Yeah, I regret engaging with you in good faith.
I would block you but I'm trying to keep my block list empty. I'll just ask, if you want to comment on my reviews in the future, do it in good faith. This is childish and makes you look terrible.
Yeah, I just wanted an answer that was other than "it's all three". I tried to show you with my questions multiple times how dialogue showcases it doesn't make sense, but you doubled down with each time, claiming that it does and did I even read the comic. Because it doesn't. Some of these things weren't clearly answered because it contradicts what was told previously plus we have added unreliable narrator (Mephisto) to the mix.
And when your viewpoint on this series has been challenged you just say: "this comic just wasn't what you wanted" and that is the reason I don't like it. You have given each comic a very high rating and that's not the problem. Is that you need justify it each time by starting with the reception of the comic, how "fans aren't patient" and how everything this does is good, even with clear criticisms it had. And even writing in your reviews other people's criticism that are valid here.
But dismissing it. That's why I said "you don't need to pretend to get this by giving it a high rating". Because that is how it feels, you want to give this comic a high rating and that's fine. Go ahead and like it. But why do you need the feel to start justifing it so heavily? That's my issue here. Even claiming this Kindred mess "made perfect sense". No it doesn't and we both know it. It's the most convoluted answer to Kindred they could've made and even doubled down here in the final issue.
What criticism you may ask? "We don't need to see..." well no we don't, but it would nice you know? Instead of watching Peter being beat down without any visible damage for 20 pages. Which contradicts heavily his first match with Kindred in #52. And having a funeral for Harry would've been nice. Like Flash got. You know, Peter's best friend.
That's why I said "May you appreciate Spencer's run on ASM evermore!" because you clearly do. But next time? Don't bring up other people's criticism, especially when you don't have a clear answer why they aren't valid. And no harm in blocking me. Nobody cares. I don't. If I annoy you, just say it and block me. It doesn't mean "you're too afraid to argue your viewpoint" or something.
So this comes down to you being annoyed with the answer not being the one that you wanted it to be, as well as the comic not being what you wanted it to be.
I don't think your criticisms are completely invalid, but on this, they are. Write the comic you wanted to read instead of arguing with me over it. I don't need to get second hand bullshit from you just because I had a different opinion than you did. I liked the comic, I think it made sense. You should be able to live with that instead of asking me questions you've already decided the appropriate answers to. At least now that the run is over, I don't have to deal with you getting offended.
No it doesn't. I didn't have any particular wish for the answer nor did I wanted it to be specific thing. I just wanted it to make sense. It didn't. Because it was a convoluted mess. And yes, I wanted this comic to be a satisfying conclusion to Spencer's run which I have appreciated so much. I didn't have any particular wish or route for this comic to take. But it wasn't for me. I asked you questions when you claimed it made sense. But those answers you gave didn't give it any more sense.
And I didn't "decide the appropriate answers to my questions". I didn't know. I still don't know. And what do you mean " I don't have to deal with you getting offended."??? I thought this would be a beginning for a beautiful friendship. I was going to name my child after you. The grumpy one sure, but you know. It's the idea that counts.
I mean, ASM is gonna be weekly now so I hoped our discussion would become weekly as well. You know, we bicker, we laugh, we cry, we see each other in a whole new light... and then we see each other in the old light again. And years later, we can "the real Amazing Spider-Man -run were the friends we made along the way" :)
I can't help you with understanding it better, you just rejected my answers, despite them being the answers given in the comic. I can't read the comic for you. You clearly have an idea for what you want this issue to be, and my answers don't align with that. The alternative is you just need to comprehend what you're reading better. I don't know what else to say.
We're not friends. We're never going to be friendly. I don't think much of you. I think you're just upset that I thought differently than you did, and you want to somehow convince me of your argument. It won't happen. I liked the issue, I think it made sense. Re-read the run instead of bothering me.
"You clearly have an idea for what you want this issue to be, and my answers don't align with that" No? I just want it to make sense. "The alternative is you just need to comprehend what you're reading better" No? I understood what was said here. It just doesn't fit into anything that was previously told. "I think you're just upset that I thought differently than you did, and you want to somehow convince me of your argument. It won't happen." No? I said multiple times, it's fine that you like it
"We're not friends. We're never going to be friendly. I don't think much of you." Now that is just mean. And out-of-place. How dare you. Party pooper. No cake for you.
Look, you're just stupid, I guess. That's what it comes down to. I can't even be nice about it, what's the point? You're annoying anyway.
Starting to insult my intelligence? How could you! I really thought we were friends or at least friendly :( And to answer your question, the point is a sharp tip of a sword for example.
I thought it was only fair that you have answered my questions so in return I answer yours :)
I mean, you can't even figure out a comic book, and now you've been passive aggressive for quite a while now. Good luck with your elevated reading.
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/did-amazing-spider-man-74-really-end-the-way-nick-spencer-intended/
Yeah I mean I guess it's my fault that I don't even figure out a comic book when the writer is rushed to end it due to this Beyond storyline. Which is why certain elements of the Last Remains story don't match the big finale. So instead of it being rewritten, it was rushed so badly it couldn't connect all the dots Spencer wanted it to. Again the direction was never my problem, it was how it was told and that didn't make sense with what was told previously.
So yeah Spencer got Tom King'd and out of the book because of Beyond. Thanks editorial. Very cool. Thanks for ruining this storyline. I hope Beyond is worth it. #Releasethespencercut. So with that confirmation, am I reblocked?
It literally says in the article what Kindred was and how he was always supposed to be that. This is the Spencer cut; this was the intended ending. You claimed multiple times that you thought this was rewritten, now you've shifted the goalpost.
If you continue the useless back and forth of passive aggressiveness, you will be reblocked.
Also, I said it in my review, but I plan on doing in-depth reviews of all the trades. Those reviews will be sure to keep track of all the Kindred developments and how they connect. So if you're still confused, just wait for those.
Yeah, I thought it was rewritten and after reading that article, I stated: "instead of it being rewritten, it was rushed so badly it couldn't connect all the dots Spencer wanted it to". So with that I admit that I was wrong because I thought it was rewritten because it didn't make sense, but it was just rushed. But that's not any better. It's even worse when Spencer had to finish his story without having the time to tell all of it so that it makes sense to the readers.
Even the article states "it was still much more truncated than originally pitched. And that is the reason that some aspects of the Last Remains story don't match the big finale". So no, it really doesn't change my viewpoint on the comic as a whole. Nor does it proof either of us any more right or wrong. It's still confusing mess, but now I know the reason why it is.
And even this article existing should make editorial feel ashamed of themselves. If a newsite have to start asking multiple people "was this the intended ending" because of how comic book concluded, something is clearly wrong. I mean sure, having 7 different artists, 9 inkers and one extra writer on the finale does implicate that something is so very wrong but now we have confirmation.
It makes sense though, even with the truncating. All the dots we have aren't invalidated by the ending, they still work within the context of the revelations provided in these last few issues.
Wait for my trade reviews, I will explain it again there when I get to it. Don't comment with a "nuh uh" response again.
I don' think the idea of "A.I of evil Harry Osborn controlled by Mephisto controls the Stacy twins who are gone but not really who know what happened to Harry's clone but don't know that they are not children of Gwen Stacy even though the demonic A.I. knows it who even uses their body to tell it to MJ and wants her to confront her sins when there are none and are released of Harry's demonic A.I. somehow when Strange wins OG Harry's soul" will ever make sense to me.
But if it makes sense to you, cool cool. Let's call it "Mephisto shenanigans" and call it a day.
Maybe that idea would've made sense more to me if Spencer had the time to explain it in a way he wanted. But since that will probably never happen, it will remain as a big question mark/"Mephisto shenanigans".
@Ben Reilly It'll be soonish. I have to catch up on all the comics I haven't been reading, due to life stuff. And then I have to carve out time for them. I give myself the time between now and when the last two TPBs come out to gear up for it.