It gives me the impression that Tynion knows that he is not good at taking over Batman and this will explode soon, in return he is obsessed with bringing a thousand new villains at once and to make fun of them in new comics, the creation of new characters, as long as you give quality and this is something that is lacking in DC with the exception of Zdarsky's writing

What's really funny is that I remember several interview with Tynion expressing his love for the Gotham characters .And I felt part of that love in his Detective run. But now it seems his main concern is pushing aside all those characters and that whole gothic look of Gotham for all these punk characters that honestly don't fit are not very interesting in comparison to the characters that are being pushed aside.

*and are not. It seems to me he took a note from Bendis and he's creating all these characters in the hopes that he can get that sweet money that comes if they make appearances in a CW show or something like that. This has become a big problem in comics today, in my opinion, creators are more interested to "leave their mark" and eventually monetize that rather than create good stories.

I think a big part about the addition of new characters is that they will get returns anytime they are used in a story or collection. They profit off of new characters personally which would be good if the characters were compelling but so far Punchline, Ghost-Maker and Clown Hunter have all been... nothing. Snyder did the same thing, it's pretty disappointing.

Exactly @Hex and @Merlyn are not making interesting characters, it's all rushed and mediocre, I don't know what's happening but it seems that the writers are giving a blind blow or just doing a bad job copying a little here and there in a careless way.

When's the last time a newly created character actually resonated and became popular with Batman readers? Damien Wayne? And that's because Morrison used the past relationship of Batman and Talia to raise the stakes for Batman. Damien didn't catch on immediately but grew on the readers. Tynion is just switching on a sausage maker and not giving any of the sausages any genuine connection to Gotham.

I agree with hex as well...Snyders original characters were as poorly received as Tynion cardboard cut outs are here. They have no value and the readers see it.

Tynion is not the writer to handle DCs most lucrative title. DC surely can see this? First of all they must abandon the Future State foundation they're laying company wide. It's a bad idea and dull as heck.

With respect, while I agree with a lot of the commenters, I don't see this as a "Tynion problem," but a "DC Comics problem." DC has been told AT&T, and told its writers, find a new audience... OR ELSE. So all of them are looking to create new characters to "expand" the audience. They figure they HAVE you as a reader. You're not going anywhere. So logic, reason, loyalty - phaw! It is all and only about $$$.

For example, take a look at new "Harley Quinn" writer, Katana Collins, for "Batman White Knight" insanity. "Best-selling writer" Katana Collins is a romance story writer and "go-go dancer." I mean, seriously, do you think she cares Quinn was a psycho killer and The Batman's mission? Please. This is a great chance to make $$$ and get publicity. And good PR for DC... to "expand audience." That is the heart of Future State, no matter who the writer is.

You're pretty right on there. Tynion is trying to make a name for himself by creating all these crazy characters, most of which wear out their interest factor within 2 issues. You saw how they peddled Punchline expecting her to be the new Harley, but when that didn't work he decided to make an insane Anarky in Clownhunter, then There's the one he really hopes will get big, Ghost Maker, reminiscent of Azrael in the '90s. Just failed modern day copies.

Yep, originality is not Tynion's strong suit. He just made some punkish versions of other existing characters. And so far none of them have been a success.

Too bad it won't stop him from trying. :(

He talked about it on Twitter... it’s a direct quote from pa Kent in the first Superman movie serial and the inspiration for the film based concept

Truth, justice and intolerance that is... tying into World War Two and the fight against the nazis

I got it, it's just that Superman's catchphrase is "Truth, Justice and the American Way", not "Truth, Tolerance and Justice" regardless of Yang's motives. And I'm really, really tired of this attitude in comics like loving America is a sin.

again, it's from the movie serials, not from Yang. It was Superman's catchphrase before the Truth, Justice and the American Way became popular because of the tv show in the 50s. The story takes place in a world that is more of the 40s, so he used the original slogan to match up.

Wasn't "Truth, Justice and the American Way" from the comics BEFORE the movie serials? I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure that's the case. Either way, I still don't buy the explanation and I think he did it on purpose to avoid using the usual catchphrase.

https://screenrant.com/superman-truth-justice-american-way-origin/ This is what I found with a pretty lazy google search, I don't see anything about the "tolerance" phrase.

https://screenrant.com/superman-american-way-new-slogan-tolerance-dc-comics/ And apparently the same guys caught up on it and are interpreting this in the same way I did, as a renunciation of the "American way". Like I said, it's not very subtle.

So to sum it up, the original slogan WAS "Truth, Justice and the American way" from the radio show, not the tolerance bit and Yang dropped it on purpose. Not that tolerance is not a good thing, it's just pretty obvious what Yang tried to accomplish there and as you can see, I'm not the only one who caught the subtext.

And reading that whole thread, with Yang saying that American soldiers "faced a manifestation of America's deepest sins" fighting the nazis because allegedly Hitler was inspired by some American writer.... yeah, that doesn't help his case very much. If anything, it kind of scares me, to be honest.

SEEEEETHING

The American Way was never first and dropped for years at one point. Since you say you did a lazy search, here is something for you https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-276/3/. Plus, in the comics over the past decade, the phrase has been dropped numerous times and Superman even addressed it himself. You seem caught up in something pushing tolerance, which is odd anyway.

The fact you looked up something on screen rant shows you did some pretty lazy research... they get 90% of everything wrong

AND if you know any history, Hiltler called the The Passing of the Great Race his bible. It was written by Madison Grant, an American and was a popular book in the US

Btw, i listen to the old radio show and through most of it's run, they call him "the champion of the oppressed" or battling injustice. Here is an actual show from 1941... https://youtu.be/cKYn-yfZA4A

I am caught up in the fact that more and more comics seem to reject American exceptionalism like it's a disease. Yes, I do have a problem with that. Yang's no exception in that matter. I did say it was a lazy search and I just googled it, I didn't search it on screenrant, those were just the first results to appear. No matter how much you try to defend it, ask ten people on the street which is Superman's catchphrase I guarantee you 9 of 10 will know about "Truth, Justice and the American Way".

If you do know any history, you know Hitler was pretty cuckoo crazy and I wouldn't put my money on anything he did. I'm pretty sure his hate towards the Jews and the other people he exterminated had very little with an American writer and very much with the reality of Germany in the 30s. So yeah, I'm sorry, I'm not buying Yang's twisted parallel between USA and Nazi Germany and I honestly think you need to seriously despise this country to make that sort of compariosn.

*on anything he said. And even if he was "inspired" by that book, what's America's fault in that? One lunatic wrote silly race theories (btw those are really making a comeback these days but that doesn't seem to scare anyone, I'm sure we'll be just fine in the future lol), another lunatic allegedely read it and got inspired, wrote his own lunacies and then got to do what his sick mind thought was necessary for his country. Again, where's America's fault in that?

And again, this has to do with a phrase in a Superman book, how? A phrase that itself was pretty much propaganda. Also, it’s fine to love the US, but don’t forget the Japanese-American interment camps, the awful racism at that time that still goes on and the fact that there were still people alive who were slaves in America!

Also, because he doesn’t say American way, doesn’t mean he hates America! In my part of the United States, people don’t look at “tolerance” as a bad thing. In fact, that’s more of a universal thing that would benefit everyone If we all followed it.

Not to mention Comic Books being more worldwide now and Superman being a freaking Alien! You think that if Superman were an actual person, he would have a problem with this? If you do, you don’t know the character and are a fool!

You are just reaching to find some justification to hate this.

I gave it a 9 and I don't rate with 9 a lot of books, HOW AM I HATING THIS??? Oh no, the awful racism, gtfo, look at what China is doing and the whole world just shuts up and obeys those monsters, in that context I have no shame loving America. America's the country that fought and still fights fascism and communism while Europe was swallowed up by two sick ideologies. Stop with this moronic self-hate that only hurts this country.

Hating on the "tolerence" part! And don't give me "look at" (insert other awful thing). Awful is awful, there aren't better levels! The tolenrence line is 100% from the movie serial that the superman part is based off of. Nobody is going to hate America because of this comic or because Superman doesn't say American Way!!!!!!!

btw, not many people read comics overall to make this a "thing"

I think I've made my message clear over several comments, if you can't get that, it's not on me and I can't see what I can do more to make you understand. You clearly either don't get the context or you're just so stubborn you would rather stick your head in the sand. Either way, not my problem. It's a "thing" in the comic industry.

You need to stop watching Ethan Van Sciver videos. That guy is a proud pedophile supporter.

I hope that tolerance and acceptance is something in the comics industry! I think I’d love comics even more than I do now! Comics are for everyone. Superman is for everyone.

I thought you meant the "thing" was the anti-American sentiment. You need to make yourself clear because your efforts of trying to paint me as intolerant are not very sincere, I have to say.

Why are you such a snowflake, Merlyn? The origins of the phrasing is verified. Hitler was inspired by an American book. Nazism was a popular movement in America before World War II, btw. And we see its hallmarks in one side of American politics today and it's deeply concerning, but that's irrelevant to the conversation. Tolerance is undeniably a good thing, unless you're intolerant. This isn't anti-american. In fact, America should embrace tolerance. It's the cultural melting pot after all.

Why are you such a whimp who always defends attacking America, Psycamorean?

I don't think any of this was about attacking America, you're just a snowflake.

Isn't "snowflake" a term that annoys leftists like you? :)) Kinda hypocritical of you to use it. Kinda late to the party this week with the reviews, I'm curious, why is that?

Snowflake doesn't annoy me at all, hence why I used it. As for why I'm so late, I've been having a long few weeks, and I still am. Real life comes before comics, you know?

Yeah sure, you're always one of the first people who gives reviews here but totally coincidental these last two weeks you stayed away. I think we both know what's the real reason but don't worry, I'm not judging you. I just remember you raising that specific point a few weeks ago and now it's so obvious what a hypocrite you are.

I genuinely don't know what you're talking about?

Is this just a way to wriggle out of proving yourself to be a snowflake that just reacts when you get triggered?

No, no, you know what I'm talking about. That's more than enough for me.

More power to you, I guess? Thanks for completely shifting the conversation into some nonsense, like you do every time.

I mean, I'm not having a "conversation" about this topic with someone who sees nazis to his left and right today in America. But at least now you know I know what a hypocritical douchebag you are.

Again, I really don't know what you're on about, but I guess it's always hard to know what's going on in the head of a braindead, anyway.

I'm fine with you playing stupid but knowing what I'm talking about, that's good enough for me. :))

I really don't though lol. I guess come to that discord server I made specifically for you, and we can discuss it more idk. Open invitation for ya.

I remember him renouncing his American citizenship. AC #900 to be specific.

Might be because Superman realized that the world is more important that archaic 'American Ideals' and only put themselves first and even then, only the rich and powerful ones.

I feel like this complaining about it is such a bold acknowledgment of America's faults. I mean, he's tacitly saying America doesn't stand for tolerance, which should make any American feel shame. It's a good virtue to have.

Could you both please make up somewhere else?

No comment on the fact that Superman no longer sees himself as an American so the notion that he has reason to say 'American Way' doesn't exist anymore there @Merlyn? Did you just miss that part?

Nah, evidence doesn't matter when outrage is your only mode of thought.

Superman sees himself as an American, only crazy people like you and that writer you cling onto want him not to see himself as an American. Now please, go away.

Canonically, he doesn't though.

He's also an illegal alien. Something Righties seem to hate. That fact never pop up? He's American because he looks white?

He's American because he was raised in America by Americans, moron. Please go away, shoo, I don't need your stupidity and your hate here!

Wait, so can immigrants be naturalized?

I'm not from America but I was raised by American parents. He didn't have documentation. The Kents had to lie to the government. There is no hate you are just ignoring the facts to fit your warped view of Superman. He was NEVER truly American and even when he was a citizen he gave it up to be a hero of the world.

K bye

What a simp lol

Yeah, I'm tired of loonies, so long as they go away, you can name me however you want. You can go away too, I wouldn't be too bothered by it. :))

You gotta do a lot of mental gymnastics in the face of fact and logic to deny it.

K bye.

You going to at least acknowledge any of those facts or are you just going to continue calling authors out for not writing the American Superman that hasn't existed for years? Oddly enough every time there is a more hard, Right leaning Superman, the AMERICAN Superman, he ends up being a dictator that murders his friends.

Ginnkgo has left this conversation. I did give him a fair warning, I don't have to treat mental illness without getting payed and there was no payment for it so...

Nothing he said is indicative of mental illness. Quit using terms you don't understand.

He was projecting a lot of his own problems on me and I didn't have to indulge him on it.

I'm sure anyone else on this site would look at this conversation and come away with a different interpretation than you have.

Cool. They can speak up here and, maybe, just maybe, not insist with several comments after I tell them that I've had enough of their lunacy.

Don't worry, I'll unblock him soon enough. I just needed a break because it was too much.

Sounds like a snowflake position.

You're just mad he called you out for not understanding Superman. You seem like the lunatic. Block someone because you don't like what they say even when they are right then cry about how they harassed you. Also, you didn't give any sort of warning. You said, 'k bye' like a sad 10 year old. Grow up and live in the real world where Superman is actually a progressive thinker.

I'll block you two if that's the attitude you come with.

*too

Go write a Superman story where he is the real true American you want him to be. Full of all the old tropes, like the damsel in distress and the overly evil corporate villain. See how well it does. I'll read it. Chances are, it'll be an example of a time gone by because that's not the way the world, or comics exist now. I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks! You did notice the rating before ranting like a lunatic, right?

Making comics is actually a lot of fun, so I think you should make a fan Superman comic.

I did. I never said you hated comics. Never said you hated Superman. Just mentioned that you got offended that you got called out for being narrowminded, behind the times and willing to ignore hard evidence when someone schools you on Superman history that contradicts your view. Have a great day my dude!

You did a little more than that, you said I don't understand Supes and that I'm a lunatic. Let's not backtrack on anything we say, I have a pretty thick skin. No one "schooled" me on anything, the guy I talked to initially actually came with wrong info, I confronted him, he tries to go beyond the subject and that was it. And the guy I blocked went full retard with how the Right leaning Superman is a tyrant. Well, John Byrne was pretty right wing and I don't remember his Superman going nuts.

Have a great day too!

All of what you just said was incorrect (save for the John Byrne part) and you reworded everything to fit your narrative again. And you did get schooled, you just didn't pay attention. Your thick skin comment is completely undercut by your childish responses and ignorant rhetoric. I implied you were a lunatic. You called him out, I just threw it back at you. He came at you with factual information. You looked at the information, said, 'fake news' and threw a tantrum.

No, it wasn't incorrect, that's just your mind shaping the conversation how you want. I didn't get schooled, if anything I actually corrected the wrong info. He didn't come with any factual information other than the fact that he hates America with all his heart which is obvious to anyone that has eyes. So no, overall you're wrong.

And yes, almost every time there is a right leaning Superman he ends up a dictator. Red Son, Injustice, Earth-2, Justice Lords, various others. They all took hard stances on controlling the populous. All he did was present facts. Here are some more.

Also the fact that you just followed Psycamorean and managed to like on the Teen Titans Academy review a post of someone who calls me a simp makes me wonder how genuine you are in your attempt at having a conversation and if you're not just a troll account made right now.

Well, what do you know, you did just make your account right now, interesting.

How did you correct the wrong info? You only just presented the John Byrne bit.

And? Isn't this place for anyone at any time? I only just found out about the site from an article and this was the first thing I saw. If this is any indication of the level of integrity in terms of consumer reviews then that is unfortunate.

Run, and fast. This website is toxic as hell lol.

Gee, I don't know, if someone would deliberately made an account just now, attack you repeatedly and then liking comments that attack you, I'm sure you would see nothing wrong with it, right?

That's really unfortunate. I guess I will just have to be liberal with the block button. Oh no I said liberal!

Yeah, how dare I not like the fact that a writer throws shade at America while being fortunate enough to live in a free country and say, not China.

At least you're a Red Hood fan, you got something right among all the wrong ones. :))

Americans can dislike America. Chinese people can not like China. In fact, many of them do but they live in fear and oppression. Yang has remarked many times on how grateful he is especially being Korean-Chinese-American. It's American to speak out against injustice. It's un-American to let injustice thrive. Unfortunately, America has become a breeding ground for inequality and injustice. Both are measures Superman, American or not strives to fix. If America was perfect it wouldn't need Superman

Honestly, Hex, if you could contribute meaningful conversation to this site, that'd be appreciated.

News flash: Superman doesn't exist. Not in real life. It would be great for him to exist but he doesn't. Stop mixing up real life and fiction, there's a medical term for that.

Psycamorean, just so you know, your new best-buddy blocked me. I'm curious, are you going to lecture him the way you lectured me when I blocked the other nice fellow? Or would you rather remain the same old hypocrite?

Not really, since I understand why someone would block you. Plus he's right. I think it's very American to speak out against injustice.

While I do apologize for devolving this whole thing into nothing, I felt like a point needed to be made that rhetoric like that was just wrong. I will continue on here with more tact and only contribute for the sake of comics.

Cool, same old hypocrite it is then.

I think it's fine to block people for good reason, and I can criticize it when it's not for good reason.

It is very American to speak out against injustice. It's not very American to hate the country that you grew up in even though that seems to be the trend these days for lefties.

I actually think that it's very patriotic to criticize your country. I mean, we value free speech, right? Everyone has the right to say what they want.

Sure but when someone's main occupation is to constantly criticize the country you know it's not in good faith and it's because they've been brainwashed by ideology. Now since I just learned this trick with the deleting of the review so the comments disappear I'm gonna do it again because I really don't want to have all of these comments on my post, it's really tiring. I'll also unblock that nice crazy fellow, maybe he'll be more chill.

That's kinda like censorship

Neah, it's kinda like 100 comments is A LOT! I remember you blocking me (that's not what I'm doing btw) at 20 comments just because you didn't like what I was saying. Now there's that old hypocrisy coming back in full force. :))

Okay, last thing I will say. Copy/paste exists and I really do hope you write that comic. Not in a patronizing way. Put the passion you feel in the words you write into the character you care about. I plan on it too. This conversation has given me a few ideas of stories I would like to write and pitch and it would be good to have strong competition. Good luck Merlyn.

Could you please stop writing a message and then block me again? It's really annoying. At least leave behind this false appearance of well-meaning. If there's anything I truly hate it's people acting nice and then proceeding to be douchebags.

I never liked "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" for Superman's character. If anyone should care so little about being patriotic, it should be the alien that literally flies across the world to save a life when he hears someone in danger. He really cares about all of humanity, regardless of border, and I think he would be thinking specifically of the ideals Ma and Pa Kent taught him, not the soil he landed on. With that said I have nothing against whichever way he says it.

Especially in the times that story reflects. The good ol' days. When P.C. wasn't around to be forced on us.