I begin to think we will never find out, why Thomas is.

at this point we can definitely write off geeting any explanation whatsoever. that could be why this run keeps jumping all over the place? maybe Tom King is hoping to distract us so that we'll forget? ....well King had never try to become a magician. he slight of hand is absolutely awful.

I also doubt it. Maybe King just thought it would be cool to have Thomas in the story, but never thought about the why.

i really think you're onto something there. otherwise we'd have had answers by now.

I hope I’m wrong here& everything makes sense in the end. But everything I read from King never made much sense, so my hopes aren’t high.

no. don't bother getting your hope high with Tom King. not at all. you'll only be disappointed.

Looking at the Solicitations I’m just happy, if no character I like dies. Unless it’s Thomas Wayne, but I don’t like him anyway

i just take solace in the fact that all of this mess will eventually get retconned and ignored. like it was just a bad dream.

I hope it will. I’m still trying to find some good things in it. And isn’t it a little cruel to make a Thomas vs. Bruce story? Because that’s what is going to happen. I’m worried though

Each time I become more convinced that the expectations of really raising the level of this series to one that doesn't divide so much and that is accepted more unanimously is the arc of "City of Bane". I don't even know how much the editorial has to do with this story to tie in with the whole "Year of the Villain" thing. But this can be dangerous since you can generate many expectations that may not be met.

I just saw that King said that at number 74 there will be revelations that will make everything fit but no longer believe that.

Yeah you are right& King keeps saying that since like 15 issues& it doesn’t make much sense. Not all of his ideas are bad, but they are terribly delivered.

"The Batman King is writing is an unlikable, infantile crybaby" ...Darkseid24, you summed it up PERFECTLY!!

Lol

I praise you for giving this a 3.5

Thanks 😁

"That’s how, fans of Dick would talk, but not the characters" If you know anything of the criticism Tom King has gotten (i.e., just read our comments), you will quickly see them echoed in his own dialogue. He's either antagonizing readers or thinks he's being extra clever when he puts the words of critics in his characters' dialogue.

The KGBeast arc was full of that offhand acknowledgment of critical comments.

It was mostly grunts in KGBeast arc& that’s not very clever. These lines just don’t fit the characters. It’s always weird, when Batman shouts „I’m the worlds greatest detective!“

"i have a body of hurt" x'D

Lol did he really say that? Lol

hear! hear!

Amen. Im not spending another penny until they do.

I thought so too, but I haven’t read all of Kings stories, so there must be a reason he won it. Not everything he writes is bad. Some of his Batman stories are ok.

Fair enough. I personally was super excited to see Mitch get recognition for his wonderful art.

I liked his art here, but in Mr Miracle it looked weird in some panels. I didn’t like how he drew Barda sometimes.

That’s fair. I really loved his art in Mr. Miracle. Also, if you ever get the chance to meet him in real life, do so, because he is incredibly kind and appreciative.

i'd heard praise of Mr Miracle so i decided to try browsing through issue #1. ...as soon as i saw the opening with him cutting his writs i put it right back down.

They will probably give him Eisner for this crap.

the sad thing is Ellrick that they probably will give him one. ...one day i'll look back fondly on the days when stories would inspire and promote heroism. not this destruction of our beloved mythic figures.

Lol

hahahaha! that's cold! xD

If any of the HiC issues are pointless it’s this one. One thing I’ll say though is to me issue 1 has been the worst of the lot as it was irredeemably bad. This one while just being a waste has a scant few moments where I went “huh? interesting” at the very least. Despite that it is in no way, shape, or form even remotely passable.

At least Ivy showed up again. Appearances of my favourite character has been oddly scarce after this shit show. How perculiar, not like she’s been killed off or anything.

Oh, no, no, please, RBL, don't awake my curiosity, because I don't want to read the garbage #1 again. Ever. But once a seed of doubt is planted... No, I must be strong and not give up to the temptation of checking whether you're right or not, because I perfectly know it'd be equal to torturing myself with this pseudo-intellectual trash.

I expected a lot more of this issue.

who the hell thought that Tom King was the next best thing in comics? i have NEVER read a comic by him that i liked. maybe he struck a chord within the masses of edgelords out there, but are they really that starved for misery that they'll settle for such trash writing?

I don’t know. He has a lot of fans& I don’t get it either. But he sells well& some of his earlier Batman issues were good.

Tom King is becoming what bendis was for Marvel. That’s not good.

I abree with Darkseid. Some of his earlier Batman issues were good. I loved I Am Gotham and I Am Suicidde arcs, personally. But it was a downward spiral from that point.

Yes or I even enjoyed the Penguin storyline.

Good point, I really loved Sheriff of Babylon and Vision.

i never really read Sherrif or Vision

Vision was good. And some of the early Batman stuff was as well. Anything since, yes even including Mister Miracle, I've not been a fan of. I don't think Tom King's name sells well. I think he's just on titles that always sell well. Like Batman or an event book. Vision sold poorly. And Mister Miracle did well for Mister Miracle.

And in my experience dealing with his fans, some of which are good friends of mine, they find the dialogue realistic, they do seem like they really like dark "adult" things, and they think it's deep, man. Overtime, some of those fans have turned against King as I like to believe they saw through his tricks and he hasn't delivered any new ones. I tend to think King is "dumb smart."

His stuff is very basic smart guy things and he leaves things up to interpretation, allowing readers to find their own meaning in it instead of explicitly giving it meaning. That's a smart move as a writer, but it's dumb in the long run because, again, people see through said tricks and you end up with the type of backlash Heroes in Crisis is getting.

I probably like Vision and early Batman because aforementioned tricks were new and shiny to me. I've never reread those stories and I think it's best that I don't because with the benefit of hindsight, those sparkly tricks will be rusted and worn, as will my patience.

Good review, but I dont think TK ever truly left his previous position, and in that capacity i think he is working to destroy this democracy by subverting its sense of justice and heroism. Maybe that is just my tinfoil hat talking though.

Ellrick that actually sounds terrifyingly accurate.

Omega Men was refreshing in its nihilistic look at war. But then King turned Batman ongoing and Mister Miracle into nihilistic garbage as well. It's all the same - "we make up lies to tell ourselves that heroes really are heroes and that there really is good vs evil, but in the end it's just people living life the way they know how." Blah blah blah. Garbage.

that's an absolute perfect summation Superheroes for Hire!

Pretty much. King seems to be repeating the same deconstructionist formula over and over again. It has become a gimmick instead of actual, genuine way of refreshing things and/or commenting on something.

I just finally want to know who the murderer is.

I'm going with Ivy for now. With Wally being the runner up.

Ivy fans would get mad, if she was the murderer lol

King has a history of pissing them off. Might as well dig that hole deeper.

As long as it is just Ivy I don’t really care. She’s pretty lame in New52/ Rebirth.

My main problem is the dialogue and that the plot doesn’t move forward. I mean it’s #5 and still not that much happened apart from murders we already saw in issue1

this series has been spinning it's wheels and going nowhere. ...the only thing it's achieved is killing characters for the cheap shock value.

Yeah, but maybe we get the wow effect at the end. It’s not that bad compared to other stories.

yes it is. :P

Nothing is that bad like Darkseid War lol

sorry but Darkseid War is gold compared to this horse shit

No, it’s the other way around. When a powerful hero gets turned into a baby in HIC and gets portrayed like a total idiot, we can talk.

Darkseid is only a fictional character. Heroes in Crisis is exploiting and misrepresenting a very real illness that many people are afflicted with. ....sorry, but i think the misrepresentation and exploitation of the mentally ill is much worse.

you really should read this article about sufferers of PTSD being very put off by King's story. . . . . https://www.comicsmnt.com/?p=1685

I don’t think HIC addresses mental illness at all, no matter how much King or fans are claiming it does. All it did was showing, that the heroes have problems too. That’s really it. It’s not like King was disrespectful towards PTSD patients. So I Stick with Darkseid War being worse. HIC didnt ruin every character yet.

Thank you for the link, but honestly that article makes no sense. I mean since when does Batman know how to treat trauma/ mentall ill persons? He beats then up regularly, so saying Sanctuary was a bad idea is just stupid, because it’s obvious that it is. But I don’t blame Kung for it, it fits Batmans character. And people are offended by everything. Some were offended, that Bruce is circumcised, others, that DC didn’t make Penguin& Riddler really gay in Gotham, others that the art treats women

disrespectful ( welcome to comics) etc. People are ridiculous these days. That’s the main problem.

i blame King plenty. exploiting the topic of mental illness (especially misrepresenting) is a jackass thing to do. especially with his history of promoting suicide like it's a cool thing.

King's intention came across as legitimate. So for a book to come out that barely addresses mental illness, and when it does it's really poorly done, is bad. Especially considering King was talking to mental health professionals and then disregarded their advice.

The characters may not have known how to properly care for these people, but nothing so far has said that this is why things went awry, or even questioned the methods used at Sanctuary. Maybe if it did, this would be a better comic. But what you're trying to do is take all the problems with the concept of this series and say that it's okay because it fits Batman, when the writer, who is playing it straight, is the one who conceptualized the entire thing.

well said YourGreenMuse.

I don’t think so. Does it mean he isn’t allowed to write what he wants just because some people are taking it too personal? I don’t think so. The main problem with this series is the bad dialogue, not the idea itself. DC treated mental ill persons ( villains) bad since ages& nobody complained. Now it’s a problem because it’s about the heroes. Not to mention, that King didn’t even portray PTSD yet. I mean when?

I don’t get the problem here. First it was the ridiculous outrage about the art, now it’s King being disrespectful towards people, who suffer under depression. It makes sense for the characters. If Bruce knew anything about how to treat trauma, he wouldn’t be Batman. And how boring would a story be, if the heroes would whine about their „problems“.

You probably didn't notice it, but all of issue 3, I believe.

King went on a news tour about this book, trying to make it sound like it was about mental health and REAL issues. And then we get this horseshit.

sorry Darkseid24, YourGreenMuse is making some very excellent points.

Well guess I must have missed that then. People are thinking it’s Wally, who killed them. That would make sense, if he wanted to make a PTSD story. But who knows

I agree with Darkseid. Not about the Darkseid War, but about the outrage with mental health in this book. I think it's blown way out of proportion. They advertised it as a book about mental health. So I thought the book will show that heroes, these gods, also have problems like this, so people in real life that have this issues won't feel ashamed and the healthy ones will take notice of the problem.

I would have never expected from a comic book that it would tackle such a complex topic accurately. It's not the right medium.

As for the harmful portrayal of women. I really can't take with this subject. With enough will you can always find something that is "wrong". With HiC it seems that there is believe that there is some malicious intent behind these drawings aside from just looking good.

Women in comics are what mainstream considers pretty and/or sexy. And as long that they don't have outfits like Mileena in MK9 I think it should be okay. I mean, most men in comics have muscles that have muscles. It's over the top and mostly unrealistic, yet no one seems to have a problem with that. Rant over.

If you're not going to portray mental health well, don't make it the focal point of your press regarding that comic. Unstoppable Wasp just did an issue that showed a very realistic portrayal of Bipolar Disorder, backed by research and medical professionals. But you didn't hear about it because the writer and Marvel didn't spend their time hyping up that aspect of the comic.

And while I didn't find the stuff with female characters offensive, at least they could've done more than paint on their costumes and clothing over a nude female body.

Excusing the writer for their garbage work and blaming it on the medium itself is an insult to comics.

mental illness is a disability. and with this series Tom King is mocking the disabled.

Mocking? Really? Ok.

I don't think he's mocking mental illness. I just think he doesn't know what he's talking about.

yes egon244, mocking.

Well, ok then. I just think it's a completely ridiculous accusation. Tom King's only "crime" here is the inability to tell a compelling story. That's it.

i don’t find it ridiculous at all. it’s very possible that you take the subject of mental illness as lightly as you do because you might have not had anyone close to you affected by it. it’s not an easy thing to live through or watch someone deteriorate because of. the gross mishandling and portrayal of people that have to deal with this is not only a great disservice, but it paints a bad picture of it as well. hence why i call it a mockery.

I would be apprehensive of assuming things like that about other people. You're bound to make incorrect assumptions. You're right, it’s not an easy thing to live through or watch someone deteriorate. But you know what's worse? Being the one that is deteriorating.

I know mental ill people as well& I also read a lot about mental illness, but I don’t think HIC is mocking them or is didrespectful towards them. As it was said, it’s a comic, I don’t expect a comic to portray complex things well or deep. Plus that comics actually already mock mental ill people by how the villains are often treated, so it’s a little hypocritical to be offended by HIC, but not by other comics. As for women I think the butt window of Harley was more disrespectful.

you are both entitled to your opinions as i am to mine. we can all agree to disagree and move on as i find this subject not only depressing, but also exhausting. stirs up too many bad memories i'd much rather put back to rest. thank you.

Butt window?

they did away with those in the 60's. too many people were making a stink.

That was when she teamed up with Power Girl.

Thanks, Darkseid. Oh, myconius you are so, so funny, I'm rolling on the floor from laughter.

egon244 you can be a real A-hole.

i've tolerated you long enough.

🤔

Lol, this a bit ridiculous. It's just comics. Everyone chill out. This doesn't have to be the internet.

The general problem is a tent pole "event" series to be based upon such a dour topic. People are nitpicking because the story must not be meeting their basic expectations for comic reading. King and DC should feel the heat, because this story does not appear to be resonating with maybe chunks of the fan base. We want our heroes to show us the way through trauma, not leave us in despair.

Should read "large chunks."

@YourGreenMuse I agree. Kings story isn’t worth it anyway. @ Superheroes For Hire I see, now I know why I don’t feel offended, because I could never identify with cheerful& happy heroes like Flash, Nightwing, Tim or even Superman from the beginning. That’s why Batman is ok to me, because he isn’t so optimistic& more realistic. However if we talk trauma, there is always a specific trauma that is either linked to heroes or villains. Like parents/ beloved persons are often dead, when it comes to

Heroes, but abuse, bullying, disfigurement, loneliness, rejection is often just linked to villains. Did we ever have a hero, who was disfigured like Two Face& overcame it? I don’t think so. That’s why I personally don’t feel offended by it. I try to see the good pertain both villains& heroes. You can even find good characteristics in a villain like Darkseid.

good sides of

agreed!

Hahahaha! Great review!

i don't think you're wrong. you summed it up perfectly.

I sincerely doubt that was even Harley. Check the final panel.

the "Bang" panel with Wally getting the death blow, you can see Harley's pale skin as well as her gloves holding the Mallet.

Yes, I saw that panel. Check the *final* panel. It's a big clue many are missing and it throws everything into doubt. Great work on this on CBR/DC board in HiC mystery thread. That final panel was subtle but it matters. We can't trust what we're seeing.

The final panel is Nemesis talking. What do you mean?

Yes, and what do we know about Nemesis?

Apart from that Nemesis is an Ancient Greek goddess, I don’t know much about this character

Check the wiki. Don’t wish to ruin the surprise of discovering for yourself. If you want to see how significant his appearance is, you can read some excellent detective work on CBR’s DC forum in the HiC mystery thread. Happy hunting

Nothing is as it seems and a lot of people reviewing or discussing the book are complaining about things that “happened” when there are many reasons we should doubt what we’re seeing. For more on that check Rikdad’s excellent blog. :)

Thanks, I checked them& Nemesis out :) Really good observations to which I honestly haven’t payed much attention, while reading it. If it’s true it could be a great story after all.

Glad you enjoyed them! Hope you enjoy the rest of the series. :)

In the hands of a better writer, I'd be more willing to trust that there's more to this than what is obvious, but I've got next to no faith in King anymore. I hope there's more to it, nonetheless.

Thank you, I hope so too :) I think HiC is better written than his Batman run, if it comes to dialogue, so I’ll wait& see how it turns out.

It’s not difficult to be written better than his Batman run though. That comic is a train wreck. King has failed to follow through on other big plot points before. He hasn’t earned our trust.

Every opinion is as valid as every other but he's certainly earned my trust. And I think his Batman has been amazing.

His Batman run is ok, but nothing more for me. Dialogue& portayal of the characters often aren’t that good. Like for example: Penguin suddenly has a wife out of nowhere, what contradicts everything, that was ever stated about Penguin& relationships.

yeah. i am not a fan of his altering characters just to suit his own personal narrative.

Yes he unfortunately does this to some characters, not all though. Overall I think it’s time for a new writer for Batman. There are only a few writers I would entrust 100 issues like Doug Moench for example, but not King.

i'd go as far as to say, it's long past time for a new writer on Batman. he's out of his element. this is a League game, and there are rules.

I know it's going across the aisle, but a Donny Cates Batman run would probably be good.

I want Manning as a writer for Batman. He wrote some great stories& actually knows all characters.

Look at us, two sides of the same coin. I can understand why you didn't like this one, and I totally respect your opinion however.

eloquently put, ohhaimark. :)

Is heroes in crisis canon guys?!

As far as we know, yes.

" weak, bland, boring, forgettable" - ooh, that's harsh. But I get it, this book/event definitely isn't extraordinary. I enjoyed issues 1 and 2, but this one was a bit disappointing. Still, I wouldn't say it derailed. Not yet anyway.

Well, maybe I hold it to a bit too high standard, which to me would be King's first 3 Batman arcs, all being super solid, emotional and tense. But even if my point may be skewed, I can't say I enjoy the entire event. So far it was a giant disappointment to me, and I really don't enjoy reading it. The concept is great, the execution, though...

Not to mention King’s obsession with ellipses. It’s.... extremely... frustrating. At times I can’t tell if the character is being dramatic or their out of breath. I agree too that the series has been mediocre so far. Especially since it was marketed as the best thing since sliced bread.

Enjoy disliking King's work on a regular basis, trolling King's fans, and Ninja Turtles.

i don't troll King fans. but i do retaliate when they come at me frothing at the mouth.

The Harley thing drove me crazy. It’s ridiculous.

Harley has become such an overpowered Mary Sue. she shouldn't need the kryptonite she stole out of Batman's *Bat-belt* to defeat Superman. all she has to do is swing at him with her baseball bat, or maybe just stab him with a pie knife.

Haha. Yes.

yup, they just love to go back to the same terrible well of writers.

"Dark Knight Depressive" sums it up perfectly! xD

You give a one on every single Tom King Batman is she there is and it’s getting super annoying. Stop being pissy because of the Bat-Cat marriage debacle and appreciate a well written, enjoyable story that is present in this issue.

He keeps giving low scores because King has yet to write a story worth a shit.

RyanSmith28 - you said "You give a one on every single Tom King Batman"

that is not true. every now and again i'll give it a "3" or "4". sometimes even a "5" or a "6".

It always annoys me when one person tells another person to “enjoy an issue” just because that first person did. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and blaming someone else’s differing opinion on being pissy about a previous issue annoys me even more.

yeah exactly. ... it's hard to have your own opinion these days when so many fans think they can police other people's thoughts. ..i wasn't crazy about this run from the start, and stopped buying it. i was lured back in by a good sales pitch, and now i keep reading just to see what could possibly happen next. i wasn't crazy about King making Bruce suicidal, never did i imagine that he'd have Batman more-or-less murder someone.

My feelings for this series differ from issue to issue. I liked the Wedding issue (I know, shoot me), but very much disliked everything leading up to the Wedding issue (issues 33-49). I hated the “I Am” story arcs and loved the War of Jokes and Riddles. But I don’t go attacking everyone who hates the Wedding issue or loves the “I Am” Trilogy just because they disagree with me.

Also, I haven’t read the issue yet, but this story arc is going downhill so fast that at this point I don’t even care if its spoiled.

Also, my Wedding issue feelings are completely subjective. It is by no means a good issue in terms of quality (i.e, the forced pinups, the “letters” that are just copied storytelling techniques from Suicide, and the shoehorned in Bane). It’s just one that, for some reason, I kinda liked.

no. i'd never deny someone to enjoy what they enjoy. but i can definitely agree with issues 33-49 and the I AM arcs. i especially did not enjoy 48 & 49 at all. ...i think it was at i am suicide when i stopped with this series, before getting roped back in with the wedding announcement. i just can't accept Batman as someone who gives up like that. like in issue 1 when he's about to ride atop a plane to his death. Batman always finds a way no matter what.

The "is this a good death" thing is what put me off about that 1st issue. And… yes. The Best Man sucked, in my opinion. I didn't like the characterization of the Joker or that the arc had no effect on the overall story whatsoever.

Tom King says his Batman story is formatted like a novel. Because apparently a novel has characters that talk like robots and huge chunks of fillers that has no affect on the story. For example, the double date issues. What purpose would that have in a novel? I'm fine with a few kind of less-important, self-contained issues, but 16 in a row is just too much for me.

YEAH! that “is this a good death” took me right out of the story. it was like- ok it’s TDKR fan-fiction time. …definitely! i was very disappointed with the Joker in 48 & 49. …hahahaha! Tom King must have some great publicist to come up with sales pitched like his story being like a novel. i think if i bought a novel and the characters kept repeating the same dialog over and over i’d be pretty pissed! at least the comics usually have decent art to sugar coat the bitter pill that is the writing.

Yeah… fan-fiction is an excellent descriptor of King's run as a whole. As for the novel thing, I read that in an interview somewhere, and it was also stated that Bane will be the main villain all the way until issue 100.

yikes! it just feels to me that the concept of Bane being the main villain through this entire run was an afterthought. when i read the the first arc and monster men cross-over, there were no indicators at all that Bane was behind everything. even the whole wedding idea felt very tacked on. like it was a stunt to pull readers in, but fizzled out. ...i just read my review for Batman issue #1 back from 2016, and i think i had Tom King's number pegged even back then.

Yeah, it seems that most everybody else liked the first story arc, so its nice to know I'm not alone in disliking that first issue.

I hated that first issue. The whole “good death” thing was ridiculously bad and set the tone for the whole series.

Tom King totally missed the point of TDKR. Bruce was at the end of his rope, retired and just miserable since he stopped being Batman. ...it's not like he started being Batman because he had a death wish and vigilantism is a good way to get yourself killed. ...i wonder if he had ever read a Batman comic prior to getting signed at DC? ...or did Dan DiDio just toss him a stack of "Batman Essential reading" and tell him to just skim it.

Ha. That would explain… a lot.

Tom King can only write robots or stories about terrorism. That is all. If he wants to be praised again as "the next Alan Moore" he better starts writing a story about Machine Man fighting yihadists.

i have to wonder if DC Editorial even bothers to review these books? ...in Batman #50 on the splash page by Fabok & Anderson, there's a line- "Another cowardly and suspicious criminal caught." ...i'd always thought it was "Criminals are a superstitious cowardly lot".

That just seems like they were playing with the alliteration of it.

possibly so, but it didn't really improve on the analogy. ...a superstitious person would be more likely to fear an omen such as a bat, a black cat, broken mirror, the number 13, spilled salt, etc... ...a criminal being suspicious really doesn't add up to them being fearful.

Yeah, being suspicious doesn’t really have anything to do with being fearful. Hadn’t really paid much attention to that but you’re right. Should definitely have been superstitious.

i mean it is kind of a minor thing, but that tiny attention to detail i notice quite a bit. especially since i've read so many of these classic stories in reprints over and over as a kid.

Yes! The build up has made this issue absolutely sing.