I would argue that she was kinda lied by Sinestro because his sell was full of shit. He says he doesn't instill fear but he kind of does, because he nudges their already existing fears. Sure, technically he's not wrong but it seems like a lie of omission. Same can be said about "not imposing their will". When you scare people the way Jessica scares them, at Sinestro's advice, again, it kind of seems to me like you don't give them a lot of free will.

I would say that she was given Sinestro’s point of view. That is how Sinestro sees himself. So he is not lying. But remember, just because I believe the world is flat does not change the fact that is round. I actually predict that DC is setting up Jessica to take down Sinestro by taking over the Yellow Lantern Corps. Now that would be an interesting and daring story that we have never seen before. I would pay money to read that.

I would actually like Jessica to stay Yellow. But not to make her a villain, but rather someone who now sees things differently. I mean they put up with Guy Gardener and he beats info out of people. That is torture, people. Taking down enemies through using their fears against them seems better than torture. Or I could be wrong. A longer review is on the GL message board.

To me it seemed more like Sinestro was trying to trick her into crossing the line towards "the dark side". In a very Palpatine to Anakin kind of way. You don't have to straight lie, say some half-truths here and there and if the person is vulnerable (and Jessica was) it would get the job done. I like Guy Gardner. I especially liked him as a Red Lantern, it fit and he tried to reform the Corps. Unfortunately, the end results were awful, most of the members died, albeit they died being heroic.

Though Sinestro could be self-deluded enough to actually believe all he was saying there, it is in character.

Tynion is even ripping off lines from Nolans The Dark Knight...I believe in Harvey Dent/the new Gotham city. And in the context of a campaign no less. I know Tynion got off the Titanic (not before leaving a mess for 2022) abe DC just lost more editorial staff but some one needs to tell them the movies get inspiration from the comics not the other way around.

I am just afraid DC does not know what it is doing. I think we are having, what the third reboot in a decade. Every time they do that, good stories I like are forgotten and they double down on stuff I do not like such as the Thomas Wayne as Batman man that is dumb. Then there is Dick as a spy and breaking up the wedding. Grrr. Or I could be wrong.

No question DCseems adrift right now. All the reboots don5 help either. Snyders Death Metal was essentially the latest one and honestly it was bloated mess to me and has created more problems than it was meant to solve. Then add the abandoned 5G which was rejiggered into Futre State and even got DiDio fired. So you've got a reboot in a reboot as DC heads towards a watered down version of Future State. Itself mostly poorly received by the fans.

DCs money woes are well known and guys like Bendis and Ridley haven't been delivering. Batman has been top ten with Tynion but it almost sells itself. If I was at DC I'd be scouting IDW Boom Dark Horse Dynamite..anyone that can come to the table with some vision and fun writing. Something is not right at DC agreed.

You're right, this is yet another anarchist group that Tynion keeps forming and that's what I find so very juvenile about his writing. His whole shtick is "we're going to tear down the current order because it's anarchist and fun". Ok, what do you put up in its place? He doesn't have the answer to that. Anarchism it's cool until you actually grow up and realize it's just edgy. The only people who remain in that mindset are either idiots or edgelords who think this makes them cool. It doesn't.

And that is very similar to what he's doing to Gotham characters. He's replacing already established characters with lamer versions of themselves. If anything, it is kind of in line with the anarchist mindset. :))

Tynions poor writing aside I think what hes doing is gradually brushing aside the characters that function around Bruce Wayne/Batman and elevating his own hollow facsimiles for the post Fear State Gotham where Bruce Wayne is a marginal character. I think this is why hes writing Bruce/Batman as almost an afterthought right now. Hes a bit player in his own book. I think DC is trying to work out how to get rid of him without haemorraghing readership.

Tynion seems to have come up with the idea that if Bruce exists as a side character the book won't bleed out readers whilehe ushers in post Fwar State nuveaux Batman complete with the Waybe fortune batgadgets rogue gallery etc. And a cast of "where have I seen them before?" Supporting cast hes creating now. Like Quinn says I could be wrong...but.....

@Ming: You might be right. In one of those final pages with Bones where DC shows us what's next I noticed a panel teasing a confrontation between Batman and Tim Fox, with him also in the Batman costume. I think they're bringing him in the current day Universe and they'll try to somehow justify his presence as legitimate. Remember when people were complaining about the possible replacement of Batman and a lot of dumbasses were like "wHy dOeS tHiS bOtHeR yOu, iT's jUsT a 4 iSsue lImItEd sErIeS?"

Well, it turns out after that there came another 12 issue limited series. Again, same attitude from some people when some of us were seeing all the signs there. And now he'll come to the main universe and probably challenge Bruce even though there isn't any real reason for this because as much as some at DC don't seem to get, Bruce Wayne IS Batman.

Yeah I've encountered the "what are you talking about batman is a cash cow for DC hes not going anywhere " and the "hey people can read about a different batman if they want to. DC isn't taking Bruce Wayne away" naysayers. Theyve already given the Superman book to the hyper aged Jon Kent and I've read that Super Clark has been bandied around.

The next Tim Fox series is called I am Batman. It's a tie in with Fear State. Ridley is saying part of Tim Foxs issue with Lucius is his wealth. Apparently hes stolen the Waynefortune going forward.

I think DC actually thinks it can permanently replace Bruce Wayne with Tim Fox and expects to keep its readership on Batman. This isn't like knightfall or battle for the cowl where you knew Bruce would be back. This is a "eat it kids.. Tim's Batman now" move. If it happens I wont even but non continuity books with Bruce until DC abandons this idiocy. I have a feeling I wont be in the minority either.

Bruce IS Batman.

I agree with everything you've said but I still like it for what it is. I don't love how batman is constantly inept though.

Fair enough. But I just can't handwave the flaws. That's the advantage of older comics. Because they don't try to be ultra hip and modern, I accept the premise easier. It's supposed to be, for lack of a better word, unreal. Or I could be wrong.

Quinn I've never been a fan of Tynions writing. I always saw him as a low budget Snyder. But how much of the poor writing that's currently belaboring the title is due to the decision by DC to press on with the poorly received Future State?

I was reading that DC is planning to make the Jon Kent Superman book the flagship title with Clark Kent a secondary character. Once again steering everything to the crappy Future State status quo. This isn't just a problem with batman books.

What I'm trying to say is if you keep trying to move the story towards a flawed and poorly received Future State status then the quality of the writing and the plotting wont improve. Jimenez can channel Rembrandt and caravaggio in his pencils but it wont save the title. People are actually saying they're ready to drop batman due to this low quality. I've only been buying out of continuity batman books.

You have a point, but this arc has a lot Tynion’s flaws. Victims form evil cabal to fight Batman and show the . . . Something. “Hip” people who are not hip. It’s all there, so can’t let Tnion off the hook.

And apparently the upcoming Fear State is just more of leading even closer to Future State. Same antagonists same stakes same Tynion tropes ..just more. I know Batman sales have tanked in the past and it took guys like Denny Oneill to lift them. But I'm actually seeing people threaten to drop the book if this keeps up. Surely DC is seeing this?

It's kind of like the readers come to DC because they want a good old familiar burger and fries and DC is wrapping veggie burgers and celery sticks in the burger wrapping and saying..we dont sell that now we just wrap it the same way. I think the rot on batman started at the end of Snyders run and King nearly killed the title so DC thought Snyders protege would fix things but Tynion isn't a fraction of the writer snyder was early on. Seriously Tynions "original" characters are interchangeable.

And it all seems to be leading to DC saying "our flagship characters are stale and unhip so we are shelving them and replacing them with facsimiles we created but they'll be in the same titles that are stale and unhip"

I think DC is in panic mode. The Warners/AT&T merger put great pressue on each division to grow. Comics aren't a growth industry. Didio and company, if not panicked, did a "bold" (read desparate) thing to attract new, young readers. It's turned guys like me off, but maybe it will attract readers. I doubt it, but I could be wrong. But I do believe getting rid of characters with brand recognition and replacing them with characters created from a check list won't work.

Also, having 234,459,037 Bat books a month can't be good. I think in June or May, Bat books accounted for 10 out of DC's top 11 books. Despite spending a fortune to hire and advertise Bendis, no one reads Superman. That's got to hurt.

Fully agree a gazillion batbooks a months dilutes readership. You know DC is thinking "how do we get our money back?"with how bad hes tanked superman and JL.Tynion is just lucky hes got a title that almost sells itself today but for DC to pull early on his run you know they cant weather too much. I agree I don't think sidelining Wayne Kent and Prince will work but so far DC is going full speed at Future State like a kamikaze pilot.

Typo to pull King early on his run.

Marvel tried to replace its heavy hitters and readers fled like tokyoites in a godzilla movie. If DC switches out Bruce wayne the same thing will happen. Bendis has already tanked superman

Not sure if its the same with you but with a story like knightfall (poorly aped by tom king with city of bane and Tynion with Joker war) it felt much more organic and it had a genuine resolution....that a more violent batman in Valley was not what gotham needed and only Bryce Wayne could be batman. Tynion cant seem to tap into anything deeper than fanfiction and hollow original characters. All this while looking to leas to Future state and remove Bruce Wayne for another checklist creation.

Bendis basically aged Jon Kent (another checklist character) solely to accommodate future state and sideline Clark Kent. That's just basement level storytelling and DC wonders why its got problems? And advances are saying that fear state is to set up major changes in 2022. Does DC know Future state bombed?

You nailed it again fenix. DC has to let Future State go but it just keeps steering towards it. The quality wont improve until DC let's FS go. Instead they're doing everything they can to make Bruce Wayne useless.

I think it is too disastrous, but perhaps the directors of DC do annual programs, perhaps that is why they do not make modifications for their horrible FS that we already know what happened. From what I read they insist on bringing Tim Fox to the Batman canon, damn as if that character was the best designed for such a company or maybe they know that this whole issue of inclusivity is taking a nosedive and disappearing the substitutes will be easier when they don't like.

But Tynion works cheap.

Yo, that's a great review. You have a lot of great points IMO, some of which I did not even thought of, but after reading this I completely agree. As a person, who's also not the biggest No Man's Land fan(part of the reason for which is that I read the old tpbs, which IMO were terrible), I feel like from the start Tynion's run been inspired by NML, but his final products are way worse, which actually makes me appreciate NML more.

The thing about this Tynion run is that it's just a repeat of other Batman stories. To be fair, 82 years of Batman stories (being constantly reprinted) make it hard to be original. But he's ripping himself off with his Victims Inc Redux. There's No Man's Land, there's the Anti-Batman from the Animated Series (former schoolmate who learned Ninja skills combined with Jean Paul What'shisname who was Azrael). There's the Bats loses his money from several stories in the 1980s and and 1990s.

Yeah, you have a great point.

Quinn do you think the story is so poor because painters themselves into a corner with Future State? Tynion is a mediocre writer at best anyway but having to steer the bat titles towards a setting that fans mostly disliked is not conducive to good story telling. And from what I understand Ramaki over at tec is already gearing up the zombie Bane from Death Metal which was the lead in to Future State. Am I missing something here?

Typo...DC painted itself.

Future State is a symptom of DC’s problem. They are not writing stories based on chacterization. Rather, they are chasing the dragon and writing stories that they hope young people will like. They are going the Young Adult route, and YA has come and gone. This alienates old goats like and does not get young people. A double loss.

Quinn - I think we are still seeing permutations on Didio's original 5G, which was supposed to merge with Hypertime to make all past continuities valid (e.g., Infinite Frontier). Future State is aspect of the 5G thinking, with the long term goal to replace core characters, at a pace that will not rock financial boat to quickly. But for Batman, lot of DC writers are hostile to Bruce Wayne, the values, and ideas that he represented as Batman.Just not the $$ to permit FS DC to kill him off.

You both make great points. Its clear that DC has fumbled FS which the skeleton of 5G. I think YA audience wants Batman not a replacement and DC seems to be slow in realizing that. Yes I can also see DC slow walking the replacement of flagship characters in an effort not to lose the core readers but it must know it will lose the base and not expand it with new readers? Agreed this current crop of writers seems to be hostile to Bruce Wayne and I know where that stems from but I ll hold back.

With FS being so poorly received I'm hoping we re simply getting the stories that were teed up to follow it and they'll taper off and restore a more enjoyable status quo. If DC thinks it can phase out the the big three and replace them they're about to take one severe hit in sales area. Like Ronnie Doi said...play with fire you burn your fingers.

Getting Alfred back would be the first smart move. Then getting Wayne's legacy back from Foxnext. Probably the dumbest move was having Lucius turn heel and keep the Wayne fortune. Ridiculous and panned by most regular readers.

There is also a "hate Bruce Wayne" movement going on in social media, Twitter, Medium, etc. Twitter featured it as "trending" on 5/31. DC has to struggle with (a) Making Money, (b) Being Popular to people who don't/won't buy comics. My perception is that DC has decided to straddle the middle.

And yet we all know that these twitterers are not regular buyers of the titles. Their opinions wont affect book sales or movie attendance. Why appease a group of people that don't buy your books but will still go to the movies featuring Wayne as Batman? I know DC is having money woes but they seem rudderless right now. Nolans movies all had roots in different story runs as have the MCU movies so far. What is do difficult about publishing a great core product for the brand?

Its pretty bad when I'm more excited about Batman89 and Reptillian coming out than the two main bat books. I think the last quality run for me was court of owls.

Funnily enough I just read an article where Garth Ennis is beating up on rich Bruce Waybe who as Batman beats up poor people and institutionalizes the mentally I'll. Hes writing Reptellian. You're right Bat the writers are hostile to Waybe but they sure don't mind the paycheck he provides. By the way where does Ennis suggest Joker Dent and Freis should be after they kill a few dozen people?

And I dont really mind Batman beating up some "low income" goon that threatens the safety of other not so well off gothamites. But Ennis thinks Batman should try being a social worker. Yeah that'll sell books and get Ennis another Batman gig.

These writers and twitterers don't see past "billionaire" Bruce Wayne yet that persona is a facade. He uses it to protect a noble mission. He not only uses his wealth to help him in his mission hes used it for gotham infrastructure medical clinics outreach and prisoner reform. Ad Batman hes stepped to innocent men from being convicted of crimes.

I'm sure the writers hostility takes a back seat to the paycheck they get from the gig he provides them.

Well, idk man that seems pretty normal for Garth Ennis. I mean, he was always open about how much he despise big chunk of the superheroes and the genre (with few exceptions), both irl and when writing. Also having in mind how big of comics writer he is, I'm sure that both dc and marvel would want him to write some bigger series, but it looks like he does not want to do that. So yeah, I think that he will write the story, because he wants to write the story and not because the paycheck.

As for the rest, you are probably right.

Absolutely Ennis is notorious with his issues with the medium filtered through his world view. Alan Moore is another one. I brought it up because of the timeliness of the comments and how they back up what Bats said about Batman writers being hostile towards Bruce Wayne. His wealth seems to be an issue for them his methods are mentioned too but find me a superhero that deals with criminals psychos and terrorists that doesn't have to slap a few around.

I mean...we are still reading comic books right?

Yeah, totally, the world of Gotham is a fictional one and has fictional problems, which demand fictional solutions. I would even say, that the way he deals with his criminal is pretty tame. He never breaks his code and rarely does more than what's needed. But even if we remove all that, Batman's story is a story of one guy, that tries to bring order and justice to his city with all his power, because he experienced it's horrors firsthand.

So it's way more important for him to be effective than to be moral( the way he scares the criminals ecc). I think that's how Batman is usually presented , and he is not supposed to be always in the totally morally right area IMO. So yeah usually I don't agree with opinions such as Ennis's on batman being a social worker and so on either. I just don't think, that he is doing Batman Reptilian for the money. But I could be wrong.

I was speaking in broad terms when I mention the paycheck for a lucrative property like Batman I agree fictional city fictional "reality"to that city. Also I agree that his code is actually more a liability than a solution. But his adherence to it exemplifies his strong will and mind. In a way it's quite enviable.

I think that's the greatest appeal of the character for me. Hes so unmoving in his prosecution of his war on crime and so determined to never let what happened to him affect anyone else that he will use every resource and reserve he has to continue it. He never wants to admit hes just a man.

That's why Alfred is so important. He went from being a comedic figure very early on to being a connection to Wayne's humanity and a surrogate father. And if course Batmans "Q". When Wayne is losing himself Alfred reminds him to come back. When his sons cant understand him Alfred keeps them together. I love how Batman walks that edge. The playboy image is the true mask he uses it be able to do what hes compelled to do. Writing him off as merely a rich guy beating up poor people is not who Wayne

I think that was quite a great analysis and I completely share your thoughts. With a character like Batman, there is just so much to like and explore, but if i have to pick a specific trait, I would probably chose too his will and determination to defy the all odds in his almost childlike quest against senseless pain and suffering. The interesting thing is that in many ways he is still a broken person, because that one night, but he continues to try to make things right.

I think, that's extremely inspiring. So much, so much so it can help people in their dark times irl. I also completely agree with your last statement. I will bring up NML again. There was a moment, where he tried to be a normal rich guy, because the whole hopeless of the situation. He could have lived as a rich man, without looking back, but that was just not him and he was aware. His real face is Batman, not Wayne. But even as Wayne, he helps the city a lot. All his money go to help the cause.

He even funds the league. So the question is, is Batman really rich, if he spends most of his money for the benefit of the others? Also Batman spends a lot of effort trying to scare the thugs. So it's clearly not his intention to beat them, but sometimes it's necessary.

I think we re both moving to the same conclusion Wayne does not pursue wealth to be rich but rather he seeks to preserve it or even grow it as both a means to do good and to prosecute his war on crime. I think in that sense he serves justice and peace. I think also his father's legacy is important to him even though Alfred has stepped into that role in many respects.

Yeah, I think that we totally reached the same conclusion. Yeah, his father's legacy is definitely very important influence and motivator for him and it was really nice, that you mentioned it, because sometimes that gets ignored. Both him and Alfred are important for different reasons. One helped create Batman and the other keeps him in check. Good conversation, man.

Agreed fun conversation.

Your take on Ghost Maker is head-on. He's just a wannabe. And all he was trying to do was impress Harley out of hopes of bedding her. Truly pathetic. If Tynion is trying to sell this character to us he's doing a pretty bad job of it.

I'm sure King has some edgekord character Death planned within the next 85 issues of this drek DC let him write. Cant wait.

Between King and now Tynion I'm now saving money and not buying favorite comic. I'm more excited for the batman 89 series because that actually resembles a batman comic.

The thing is I want to like these stories. I really enjoyed Kings' idea of the Batman/Catwoman romance. The angsty loner bit for Batman lasted less than a year. Then Robin came and Batman had a partner for the next 30 years. Tynion brought back Stephanie Brown/Spoiler. A character I really like and apparently so does Tynion. He fought for her, but his writing of her was . . . off. Instead of someone who wanted to belong to the Bat family, he wrote her cynical, anti-bat. Missed the point of her.

I'm with you...I want to like it but Tynions writing is just so bland and not exciting. One positive would be to abandon the set up for future state but DC seems to be dead to that message. If they did dump it could open up the writing to more fun stories. Handing the Batverse to Tynion was not a smart move.

Well, the thing is, Tynion doesn't care about Batman's world, Molly's "social commentary" though apparently targeted at Gotham is meant to be about our world. All of these writers are SO desperate for us to hear their ideas about the world, hence the whole twitter-mania, too.

Problem is, okay, capitalism has its flaws, I have my own gripes with it, what's the alternative? Because if the answer is "socialism" (and a lot of the comic writers today lean that way, guys like Zdarsky or Ewing would probably block you if you critique socialism) then your best option is run in the opposite direction as fast as you can. The same here with Molly, ok, things are bad, what's her solution? Transform people through technology (which obviously will be used against them). Genius.

She reminds me of Karli Morgenthau from FATWS, she was angry with the system so her solution was to turn people into Super-Soldiers which didn't help anyone and got her killed eventually even though the hero rooted for her unabashedly. In both of these cases, the writers actually agreed with the character's political worldview but since they had to make them villains, the solution was stupid as hell. So people would sympathize with them but understand they're villains. Sorry for the long rant.:)

Merlyn the irony is delicious...transform people through technology and right now we re seeing the socialists and their tech oligarch financiers using technology to silence dissent and control society. Control the language and you control the culture. The oligarchs seek greater power and monopoly but with a socialist flavor at some point they will clash with their socialist activists too. Now I don't think Tynion is deep enough to see that kind of situation playing out but I don't expect him to.

More to the point...I really dislike Batman being written as an idiot. He is the keenest mind in the DCverse. This plays into how you suggest that Tynion has no feel for the character. Batman is a control freak and master strategist. His contingencies have contingencies. As Bruce Wayne hes a compassionate philanthropist and anti corruption yet he makes no effort to retrieve his wealth from Fox..some both identutues f his need for their missions.

Socialism is literally 1984.

And Batman fully trusts no one but Alfred. He be exhausting every scientific and supernatural means to bring him back. Even Tim Drake contemplated using a Lazarus pit to bring his natural father back. And Jason Todd is alive because Talua used one on him. There's so much emotion inherent in him trying to find Alfred but Tynion gives us Punchy. Ghostpool and Clownshoes all in a "this way to future state" storyline. So frustrating.

Yes, socialism is the worst possible system ever, only uneducated fools still believe in its utility. Which, kinda tracks.

I wonder if Merlyn could describe the problems with socialism in detail.

I don't need to, history did it for me.

Ah, the classic "I don't know what I'm talking about but I've been told something is bad so it's bad! Look it up! It's not my job to teach you!"

It's really not my job to answer stupid questions, your parents, school or common sense should have taken care of that.

Oh and you just blocked me because you apparently wanted to ignore me. Why on Earth would you involve yourself in a conversation literally 5 minutes later. Are you really this insane? :))

So you don't know anything, got it.

You can repeat like a parrot the same thing, you won't bait me into educating you. If history did nothing to show you how moronic it is, I don't have a chance. Also, get treatment, you're literally insane.

Okay, math degree.

I haven't been told socialism is bad champ. Uve experienced it first hand. Be careful what you wish for.

And don't make the mistake of believing these tech oligarchs are capitalists. They seek to destroy competition not compete in it. They want global monopolies. No one said capitalism is perfect but I'd rather have equal opportunity over the socialist idea of equal outcomes.

Example? When Trumps twitter followers went to Parler tge tech oligarchs feolatfirmed the service. Completion drive users to Parler the gatekeepers said cut them loose or we silence you. Amazin Google they all seek monopolies they're not capitalist. Dont kid yourself.

Sorry for the typos. Deplatformed and competion not completion.

Please dont insult my intelligence by reciting to me what the oligarchs said as to why Parler was deplatformed. If you choose to believe their oily routine that's on you.

Problems with socialism you asked? Inhibits competion by making private business compete with the government and its crony businesses. This affects wages. Hiring income innovation. Example? Which vaccine di you prefer. Pfizer AstraZeneca or that dodgy Chinese one?

The right answer is Pfizer.

Merlyn my apologies. You're intelligent enough to know you cant really educate the indoctrinated chimpanzee. I cant resist trying.

Oh and please get rid of Tynion and get a decent writer on Batman so I can start buying my favorite title again.

So first of all, where have you experienced socialism first hand? Socialism doesn't advocate equal outcome. The end result of capitalism is global monopolies, so I don't know what you're on about. While Parler was deplatformed for a time, these companies have already gone back on that. Which proves it wasn't a political move, but rather a financial one, as they would come under fire and potentially lose revenue if they kept Parler afloat.

Side note about Parler, it's a giant honeypot that collects all pertinent information necessary to track and identify its users, and it is much more upfront about it, yet you're worried about tech oligarchies at the same time.

I don't care what the companies said about deplatforming parler, as it's within their legal rights to do so, and I don't think they have a motive outside of maximizing profit (thanks capitalism).

Socialism would increase workers' rights and thereby increase wages, through seizure of the means of production by the workers, not the government. We've seen through worker co-ops (aka socialism) that they actually are more resilient against economic downturns, are more productive and are a safer financial bet for banks to make. Pfizer's research and production of the vaccine was mostly funded by the German government, which you seem to think hurts innovation so...

Side note about China: China is not a socialist country, nor is it a communist country. It is a planned market economy. This is more like capitalism unfettered than anything. The CCP takes ownership of all business in China in order to increase capital gains, maintain monopolies, and steal intellectual property. The invisible hand capitalism is very active in China. Even though communism is in the name, it is not that.

No the end result of capitalism is not global monopolies. Whereas socialism is in fact government monopoly and cronyism. You are wrong.

I dont care what you think if parker it was deplatformed for wromgthink. It was entirely political.

Lol...socialism suppresses competion which suppresses earning and wages. I know because I've seen it first hand. You lie.

And wrong again Pfizer didnt take government money to develope vaxand made a better product and a profit. Just yesterday biden announced he'd remove patent protection on pfizer and moderns because the alternatives aren't as good. Sicualsm failed again

You're one of those socialism works it just hasn't been implemented properly yet Clownshoes arent you?

Side note about China. Yes I know its communist...the cousin of socialism

China still has gulags doesn't it?

Maximizing profit you said? Twitter has been losing market share even more since banning trump and his followers and other conservatives. Again you lie.

To make it clearer for you Pfizer took no US federal funds to develope the vax. It worked with it german partner biotech se. It made a huge profit and congratulations to it. Record time to develope and manufacture and a healthy profit. You now stand corrected.

Really, the end result of capitalism isn't global monopolies? You're complaining about tech oligarchies on a global scale fostered in the economic system of capitalism right now. Your cognitive dissonance is astounding.

It's not about whether I think Parler was justifiably deplatformed. It's just a matter of fact that companies are dictated by profit. That's Capitalism. Do you not understand any of these economic systems that you apparently feel the need to teach about? We've seen Parler be re-platformed since January, proving that it wasn't a political move. Otherwise, Parler would still be gone.

I don't lie, there's data to back up my claims. Again, where did you experience socialism firsthand? Weird that you'd ignore that question.

The Pfizer vaccine was almost entirely funded through the German government. I never claimed that the US funded it. In fact, the only one who claimed that was Trump trying to actualize his full potential in the face of electoral defeat. It's one of the most effective vaccines we have against COVID, and it was funded through a social program. Which btw, isn't Socialism, but I'm assuming you're one of those people that cry socialism whenever a country actually provides a safety net.

Can you give me the name of one socialist country that follows the theory of Marx and Lenin? You can't even name where you "experienced socialism firsthand".

You plainly ignored what I said about China, so I don't even know how to respond to that. I wonder if you could tell me the difference between socialism and communism. Warning, a wrong answer will expose you as ignorant, if this chain of idiotic comments wasn't enough.

China is committing a Uyghur genocide, yeah. But that's more in line with Fascism, a direct result of the unfettered capitalism China evolves in.

Again, the point of any firm is to maximize profit. This is Capitalism 101. The fact is that the majority of these social medias' userbases are in favor of the crackdown on racism, fascism and nazism that all happens to fall under the label of "conservatism" now. And they're going to cater to those users because it is in the best interest of profit to do so.

You can thank BioNTech and the German government for that record developmental time. I don't know why you people are so insistent on showing your own ignorance. Next time, be like Merlyn and just pivot away from having to actually say anything. Your responses have been just as much a waste of time as his and just as empty of anyncogent points. At least he had the courtesy to cut to the chase.

My brain hurt so much reading Psycamorean's commentaries, it's amazing how he's twisting reality to suit his "utopic" socialism. China is fascism lol. Man, you're really dumb. If anything, it's our fault that we're entertaining your moronic ideas.

Could either of you at least attempt to exhibit an understanding the basic concepts being discussed here? All you have is poorly thought out doubling down, and insults with no punch. It's the telltale sign that neither of you know anything about what's being discussed. It's childish, ignorant and pathetic. Your brain should hurt.

The basic concept of "China isn't communism"? No, I really couldn't. Just like I couldn't "exhibit an understanding the basic concepts" of black being white and viceversa. When you're denying reality to this level, there's no way I can help you.

Is not like you are trying to help him understand

It's not like you have a chance when someone goes the "true socialism preached by Marx and Lenin wasn't actually tried" route. It's a dead end, by that point he is already radicalized. It's like trying to convince Hitler that Jews are his friends, it's a waste of time, they guy is already lost. Oh, and Lenin, what a hero, he certainly hasn't blood on his hands, really great role model, if only we had more leaders like him these days. :))

I'm from Eastern Europe, my parents and grandparent lived in a regime this guy likes, so I know what that's like. I'm not going to get preached by an ignorant American about something he has no idea about. I know how that works, he only "knows" what he talks with his lefty idiotic friends. So yeah, he's just a moron who's trying to pretend he understands something he really has no idea about, sorry if I don't care about him and his stupidity.

I get that it can be a subject, that's close to you. I'm also from a Post -communistic country and my parents lived through the same regime your parents did too. I get why you react that way, i really do, but saying that everybody who supports socialistic ideas is dumb, to me sounds ignorant, having in mind how many legit smart people supported it through history .Even more so without trying to explain yourself. Especially after the guy actually had some really logical arguments.

Also nobody is supporting communism here, which is the system our parents lived through. The guy is supporting socialism which depending on your definition can be a lot different. Btw i'm not trying to be rude or anything, i understand why you reacted that way, just i don't think that's the right way to react to a claim like that.

Socialism is communism's little cousin, keep in mind that all of those republics were calling themselves socialist, just as the USSR was calling itself socialism. There's a reason for that and it's not hard to guess. Socialism paves the way for full communism. Oh, and all of those countries were Marxist-Leninist. Which our guy here claims is such a great system.

If for him being a conservative means you're a fascist or a nazi, I don't think I should be more considerate about the differences between socialism and communism. I'm just speaking his tongue.

Also, the guy blocked me just 14-15 hours ago because supposedly he wanted to ignore me yet he inserted himself in two conversations on this site with me. So, you know, he's not the nicest or sane guy here, sorry if I'm not putting on a red carpet for the guy.

Didnt I say not to call the tech oligarchs capitalists? Is reading and comprehension an issue for you?

Europe champ. That's where I've seen the failure of your beloved socialism.

Good luck selling Pfizer as biotech se.

Twitter saw billions in market value loss after their treatment of Teump. Good luck selling them as pure capitalist.

Merlyn notice how the liberal elitist is going to tell people who've witnessed the failures of socialism first hand what they should know about socialism?

Stalin's purges. Khmer Rouge yeah...all fascists. They're communists champ. Socialism cousin

If only it was just china and the uyghurs right? But communism seems to have a common trait of killing and incarcerating in the hundreds if millions. Spare me the fascist double talk.your cousin has much to answer for

But socialism just hadn't been implemented properly yet...lol

If for him China is not communist, probably Stalin (I've seen lefty loonies claiming Stalin was fascist, just as this guy does with China), Mao or Pol Pot were not communists either. See, the thing is, his true colors are starting to show, he's not defending just socialism, he's defending communism too. So yeah, I don't think there's any real talk to be had with a guy who dismisses hundreds of millions of dead people for the sake of his "utopia".

Yo guys, having gulags and being a dictatorship does not necessary means that the country is communist . It means that the country is a totalitarian , which includes both fascism and communism. Both regimes have that in common. There are other things, that determine if the country is a fascist one or communistic one.

Gulag was literally a soviet term, what are talking about?

what are you*

Socialism is not totalitarian, which at least in my opinion is one of the worst trait of the Communism system. They are not the same thing. In fact socialism is more used as an economic system and not a political one as communism. Also under Socialism the public controls its means of production and that's not tied to any ideology or form of government. Which means that its compatible with democracy also.

You're confusing social democracy with socialism.

yeah you are right Gulag is a russian term. Gulag is a forced labor camp, which is a totalitarian thing, not only communistic, but fascistic also.

It's literally a soviet term and the soviets were communists first. Totalitarianism came after that, with Stalin but the term originated in the Lenin era when they were not (yet) totalitarian. Fascism has absolutely nothing to do with it. You're confusing authoritarianism with fascism, a common misconception.

Maybe i am. It really depends on the definition you've been taught.

Check wikipedia if you don't believe me. Fascism is an extreme right-wing view of the world with extreme nationalism at its core. The soviets were internationalists so fascism has absolutely nothing to do with the gulags. It's like saying the swastika it's a left wing symbol. Authoritarianism doesn't care about political orientation, it can be left wing or right wing.

Yeah,yeah you are totally right . i got confused.

i was thinking about Nazism the whole time.

especially Hitlerism.

One more thing if the Pfizer vax belongs to a German company what does the US have control of the patents which Biden is considering dropping right now? The answer is because the American iteration of the company produced and manufactures the drug. Otherwise German company would hold the patents. Game. Set. Match.

Merlyn inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.

Hitler nationalized everything. No company operates without the control of the party and its goals. This wholly online with socialist ideals.

Merlyn you're right. The communist idea looked to a world view. The national socialist in 1930s germany centered it on a nationalist ideal. Both took over industry education and the media to control the population.

If you look at how China operates, it is not under communism whatsoever. The only communistic thing is the state owned companies. The rest is capitalism at its finest. And you may want to agree with that, because otherwise you acknowledge that the fastest growing economy and the next emergent superpower has thrived under communism, and therefore it is more effective than capitalism. I don't think China is communist, however.

I'm willing to concede that its growth is due to its adherence to unfettered capitalism. But I guess if you want to pretend communism is supreme....

True socialism, as it is defined in modernity, has not yet been tried. Oh, and Lenin was a revolutionary. Of course he has blood on his hands, but so do the Founding Fathers. America was founded in revolution, so that's an incredibly stupid gotcha argument that makes no sense if you think about it for more than five seconds.

I don't think the Eastern Bloc was good. I know, crazy, right? And whereas you pretend to know what you're talking about while saying literally nothing, I keep making arguments and having them ignored. So think it's clear who's ignorant here.

Criminology. is right in that I am not supporting the totalitarian dictatorial regimes that were allowed to operate under the auspices of socialism and communism.

There is totally a reason why these regimes call themselves socialism, communism, etc. It's the same reason the Nazis were originally called National Socialists. They use the proletariat to gain power and abuse that power. Marxist-Leninism is a bastardization of socialism and communism, created entirely for the sake of these totalitarian regimes. It is not a valid ideology, it is literally just a propagandist crutch with which these governments use to dominate their people.

I am not a Marxist-Leninist, and I never claimed Marxist-Leninism is a great system. Again, this is showing that you have a very simplistic understanding of these ideas, and that you don't actively try to understand them or do any basic research.

I think conservatism is going down the path of fascism because of the radicalization on the right we've seen in America, Latin America, and Europe. Trump was a proto-fascist, Bolsonaro is straight up a fascist. Spain just had an election that turns the country much more towards fascism, as the winner, Isabel Diaz Ayuso, is now vying for support from the far-right Vox party. There is a definite shift that has been playing out, and to pretend there hasn't been one is disingenuous at best.

I blocked Merlyn because, like in this conversation, he added nothing. As I said there, I'm always willing to have a conversa0tion, hence my participation here. I'm actually super nice, my friends say so.

Yeah you said that tech oligarchs aren't capitalists, but you're plainly wrong. Everything they do is in service to capital and I'd like to see some real evidence to counter that, not just your intuitive feelings.

We've been over this, the Eastern Bloc wasn't socialist. Stalin was not a socialist. He even had an ideology - the one he used to govern the soviet union - named after him: Stalinism.

Twitter actually regained about half of those losses within a day. The reason they banned Trump was for the sake of advertising and avoiding future regulations. If they allowed someone who called for and caused an attack on America's capital, they would not be a company that advertisers would want to engage with. Advertisers don't want to advertise over potentially divisive content as that hurts their brand.

On top of that, if they allowed people like Trump to incite violence, that may lead to a crackdown on them in the future by the American government under auspices of protecting American citizens, which would further hinder freedom of speech and expression online, two things that people clearly look for when choosing which platforms to use. Trump was in violation of the ToS, a necessary component of any service.

(Without a ToS, the user experience on these platforms would be atrocious. Constant harassment, Doxxing, etc. No one would use the platform.) If they don't uphold the ToS, then anything goes, and that's a terrible precedent to set.

Also, I don't automatically assume expertise with experience. That's like saying an American knows the ins and outs of American politics simply because they live in America. That's not the case, most Americans are ignorant of the system in place, and that's the same all over the planet.

Again, you're not actually saying anything. You're just doubling down. How about you explain why these regimes were communist beyond "They said they were". Why are you trusting these evil totalitarian regimes? I think China is fascist. I think the Soviet Union was totalitarian.

We've been through this with the whole communism/totalitarianism false equivalency. And I actually think the Uyghur genocide is terrible, so no not "if only it was just". I guess I care more about it than you.

The difference between social democracy and regular socialism is that social democracy is an attempt at gradually and peacefully achieving socialism through the established political processes, rather than revolution. They are both socialism, they just have different means of achieving socialism.

Actually, Pfizer vaccines are produced across the globe. The Biden waiving of the patents has to happen in Germany too. We saw today that Germany is against waiving the patents. This is not an American decision, this is a multinational one.

Socialism is simply the proletariat seizing the means of production. It doesn't imply government intervention. It doesn't adhere to nationalism. It is wholly economic, not political.

For another example of the rise of fascism and radicalization in Conservatism, look at what's happening in Colombia right now. Which is, btw, also a result of capitalism. The IMF gve Colombia a loan to help with COVID, and suggested more taxation in the already struggling poor population. This led to protests, and now these protesters are being murdered in the streets, shot dead by police.

Lol the proletariat squeezing the means of production. Marx would be proud of you.

The only rude in fascism I see today is in the left. The shutdown of freedpeech. The demand to marginalize and dehumanize any dissenting thought. Destroying one's life ir career if they dare to speak or have spoken against current leftist orthodoxy. You're not only a liar but a hopelessly indoctrinated one.

Typo rise in fascism

Once again the tech oligarchs are not capitalists. Capitalism thrives with competition. The oligarchs seek global monopolies and now were seeing them try to to control political speech. This is not capitalism.

Communism requires totalitarianism to keep power. We ce seen this everytime. Its not false equivalency its it's simply fact.

You can keep trying to sell Pfizer's private sector success as beholden to socialist Germany but no ones buying your BS. They worked with their german partne but heavy lifting was done at Uzs iteteayion eaad...the free market capitalist end. It accimplushedwgat your beloved socialists and communists could not.

The heavy lifting was done with the US iteration.

You blocked Merlyn because the left's fascisticnature is to dehumanize and silence dissent. Fehynanuze, you determined his thoughts mean nothing. You contradict yourself with your own actions and words.

I can tell by your lefty rote that you're one of those "socialism hasn't been implemented properly yet" delusiinals. Lol the proletariat seizing control of priduction...and who created the means of production? Oh yeah....th3 capitalist investor who had the resources and smarts to build it.

Again no ones pretending to know what they're talking about when they've seen your precious socialism at work first hand. But that again is your leftist fascistic nature dehumanizing and silencing dissent. Apparently our own life and eyes amount to nothing to the liberal elitist. J6st obey your letters right? Like I said inside every progressive/leftist us a totalitarian screaming to get out.

You can twist in the wind at this point you're a repulsive individual to dismiss others own life experience in order to give succor to your miserable political beliefs.

I'm done with this wretch.

One more thing before I leave you to your proletariat fantasies...the communist terror group FARC has a role in that unrest in an already dysfunctional Colombia. Nice try.

"True socialism, as it is defined in modernity, has not yet been tried. Oh, and Lenin was a revolutionary. Of course he has blood on his hands, but so do the Founding Fathers. " In just three phrases, you proved what a retard you are. I'm out. Ming, I suggest you do the same. The guy is beyond saving.

If "Spain just had an election that turns the country much more towards fascism" then until now it had turned towards communism. Since, you know, the socialists are in power in an alliance with the communists. Same thing that happened in Germany with Die Linke. But that was of course okay because communists are cool, the "danger" appears only when in a regional election (not a national government, mind you) a far-right party can join in a coalition. Again, his true colors show.

My favourite part with Lenin's rule was when he asked so nicely the peasants to give up their lands and totally not murdered them.

Free speech has not been shut down. You are able to say everything that you want to say, on a legal and fundamental level. For instance, this increasingly mind-boggling comment chain. No one is coming after you. What you're referring to is the over-hyped use of cancelation. This does happen, and sometimes it is done with ill intent, but it is not done on any sort of systemic scale. As much as you have your own right to free speech, other people have their right to respond with their own.

You cannot shut them down, just as much as they cannot shut you down. This is a typical conservative fear-mongering culture war talking point. I'd suggest that you don't live in paranoia, but that's like asking a pot not to be black.

Capitalism thrives on competition in a perfect system without undue influence from greedy and unseemly people. The market, however, does not regulate itself. There is no invisible hand, as they like to call it. Therefore, we've seen firms overstep their bounds, time and time again. There are anti-trust regulations in place for a reason.

To say that capitalism doesn't end in monopolization when we're seeing corporations quickly bloat into these enormous monoliths at an unparalleled pace is frankly ridiculous. Also, you can find a ton of conservatives on any of these social media platforms. Look at YouTube. Conservative channels are the top political channels on the platform. Why? Because they make the most money. Conservatives are much more easily indoctrinated, and much more likely to devote themselves to talking heads.

These channels are frequently allowed to break ToS without any resulting punishment because of this. This includes promoting hate speech and bigotry, spreading misinformation and disinformation, etc. So, no, these "tech oligarchies" aren't out to silence your speech. They are out to make as much capital as possible.

Communism does not require Totalitarianism to function. Nothing in Karl Marx's political theory advocates for Totalitarianism. In fact, when Russian Marxism took hold in the early 1900s, there were many, many socialists who decried its use of these more authoritarian measures as a betrayal of Marxian ideals. This is a fact, look it up.

The Pfizer vaccine was almost entirely developed by BioNTech, the German company. Pfizer helped with logistics and manufacturing. Their role is important, but the development of the vaccine is the truly miraculous part. Pfizer has actually been replaced in some places, which should tell you exactly how important they are in comparison to BioNTech. For instance, in China, Fosun Pharma has replaced Pfizer in the equation due to political reasons. Pfizer is not the key here.

Any company can fulfill Pfizer's role. BioNTech is the one that took the risks of creating an mRNA based vaccine, a new and seemingly far-fetched solution beforehand.

Merlyn was blocked literally because he adds nothing to these conversations. At the same time as blocking him though, I gave him a way to have a conversation with me whenever he wants through a discord server that he denied. So, my actions actually show that I'm very fair when it comes to allowing people to say what they want. I have no obligation to even acknowledge him, and yet I do. I'm engaging in this conversation right now.

his is in direct conflict of your assessment of me, and don't think I don't realize how ridiculous it is to paint me as some sort of spooky monster who denies the validity of people's thoughts, while you are also doing the exact same thing to me.

The means of production are useless without the workers turning them into something worth selling. That makes workers the most valuable part of the operation. Without them, capitalism fails and so does every other system. So yeah, I do think workers should be in control. But idk, I just like the idea of people being in control of their own lives, and what they do with them. Such a monstrous concept, I know.

Nothing I said is dehumanizing you. I don't understand your self-imposed victimization here. Your life experience only means something to you, but it is at its core anecdotal. It is biased, it is changed through your own perception. It is not something that we as people should use to determine things. Your experience is not indicative of the overall truth of the matter.

That's true of my personal experience as well. It's not about dehumanizing you or your ilk, we're all on the same level with that. So what we can do is look at the policies of the Eastern Bloc and compare those to Marxian theory. If you do that, you'll notice quite a few inconsistencies between the theory and the actions of that regime. Simple as that.

FARC has not been active since its peaceful dissolution with agreement from government in 2017. One of the former FARC members tried to restart the group, but has found little success as the government has bombed their own people multiple times for potential dissidence. FARC also has history of fighting for the poor and disenfranchised against a government that claims to fight for law and order.

Yeah, "welcoming" me to a discord channel that you own is sure very fair lol. Even though I told you four times already I don't use discors. But I guess your brain just can't understand what other people talk with you.

Why Merlyn would bring them up is beyond me, but to anyone who isn't offering their ass up for fascism, it's not a great look.

How about you explain how I "proved what a retard" I am with those three phrases? That would require you actually make a cogent point, so don't worry about that.

Yes, I don't think the far-right is good. Those are my true colors. The far-right loves its nationalism. Their rhetoric leads to fascism over time. Of course, I don't want the world to move towards that. What kind of idiot are you that you think you're making a point here? Are you fucking brain-damaged? The guy who can't even type a sentence without three typos comes across more intelligent than you.

And my favorite part of this latest dumping of incomplete thoughts is that you condemn Lenin for doing something that you literally just excused the Colombian government for doing. Where is your consistency?

I'm glad you're done with this, because honestly this is getting exhausting. So much of what I said was outright ignored, and I hope that if some random person comes across this, that they will at least see my side of it, even if they disagree. The irony of you calling me dismissive while you and Merlyn acted the way you did is rich as hell.

No, you're not engaging in anything, stop lying. You blocked me because you said you were trying to "ignore me" yet after you blocked me literally minutes after you inserted yourself in two conversations with me. NOBODY ASKED YOU TO, yet you did. Let's try telling the truth once in a while, shall we? I know it's hard for a commited liar like you but just this once, ok?

Yeah, I ignore stupid stuff, that's a healthy thing to do, if I were to answere every one of your retarded so-called "arguments" I would go crazy, like you.

And I didn't bring up FARC, I think you're losing it lol. :))

Merlyn, I promise you it's very fair. It's literally created just for you. There's no goon squad in there waiting lol.

Well, you're both avatar-less and making the same basic arguments. I have to wonder if this is just a thing with Eastern Europeans... But I know it's not, in all seriousness. I used to be with someone whose family came from Eastern Europe, who lived through the Eastern Bloc, and they were all fantastic, reasonable people.

Man, you're dumb as hell. I didn't say the far-right is good either, you utter moron, I just said that you have no problem with the far-left being in a government coalition, yet the second the far-right could be involved, you react to it. Always defending communism, like a true comrade. And don't act like you're not proud of the term "comrade", you know you are.

Aaand, he's being xenophobic again. The irony, complaining about the far-right while being as xenophobic as them. :))

This is my last message here, regardless of what stupidity Psycamorean will come up with. @Quinn: I'm so sorry for what we've done here, if it bothers you, you can delete all these commentaries by deleting your review after you've copy-pasted it and then post it again. I'll like it for sure. Again, I'm really sorry, I should have known better than to engage with that moron. Bye!

Okay, but I didn't ever deny that I dislike the far-right? Why would I like it if I'm on the left? I don't understand the point you are making.

I literally wasn't being xenophobic. I made a joke. Criminology proves that Eastern Europeans are perfectly capable of being reasonable, if you just want to use this sample size here. But notice, I also said that in all seriousness, I have had plenty of good experiences with people from Eastern Europeans. I've literally loved Eastern Europeans lmao.

Sorry Quinn, I guess. But I say don't censor, and keep these comments up. I think they're worth displaying. I have all of mine backed up, regardless, because that's who I am.

I wasn't aware that I was self-censoring. I l must admit that my vanity has been fed with a 155 comment string to my review. And as I said, I am not trying to be contrary. I want good Batman stories. But these are it. I blame poor story structure, bad plot and flat characters for the problems, not politics. I really like Chuck Dixon stories. I bet our politics don't match. I dislike Denny O'Neil stories. I bet our politics are not that far apart. Get the basics right, then worry about politics.

Well, as you can see, I was critical about this issue too. Not as critical as you, but I'm not in love with this run. As for your political creator examples, Chuck Dixon is conservative and Denny O'Neil was liberal. Whether that lines up with what you bet, I have no idea.

Denny O'Neil was pretty left-wing. Hence his whole Green Arrow being a lefty thing. Now if for you "liberal" means left-wing, sure, you can call him that. However, if "liberal" means center of the political spectrum, which is the accepted version, I don't know if O'Neil would be considered a liberal.

My point was that actual story telling skills count, not a writer's personal politics. I am sure Denny O'Neil was a wonderful man. Chuck Dixon certainly liked and respected him. I don't care about O'Neils politics. I care that I found is dialog flat, his jokes unfunny, his plots built around coincidences and his characters off. Or I could be wrong.

I think I liked O'Neil more as an editor. At least, I think he was behind a ton of good things as an editor. But my favorite things he wrote was his Iron Man run and his Question run.

And as editor, he made Frank Miller's Daredevil happen, he got Moon Knight going, and he was probably the best Batman family editor, if I had to think about it.

I don't really have that same reverence for Chuck Dixon. I haven't read a ton of his work. Nightwing was good, what I have read of his Nightwing.

I give you the real world and you have me Marxist theory. And then say I'm the one who's indoctrinated? I was right about you you're one of those *it hasn't been implemented properly yet" lefty thrills. Communism and totalitarianism..every communist state has resorted to it. Dont tell us to deny reality the way you do. I'm sorry but I couldnt let you get away with more of your lies.

And defending FARC is not a good look.

Quinn my apologies also. People like 5his pay guy go unchallenged on chat boards far too often. Sometimes one has to blow the whistle.

One last note before letting this go...multinationals are not capitalist. Call it corporatism if you like but they seek to end competition and have control. When 100 corporate leaders had a meeting to discuss Georgia voting laws their mask fell off. Capitalism relies on competion multinationals seek to kill competion. Un pays myopic love affair with marx he only sees the Gobs of money they're making and bleats "capitalist*. Norhing is further from the truth but psy has a lot if trouble with trut

Osy values marxists theory over truth. Let that sink in. Peace Out.

I don't know... Are you and Merlyn just competing for the most braindead of 2021? We moved on to something much more important: comics. I'll let you have the last word here for your ego.

I just want to say that i totally share Quinn's thoughts and i think that's really helpful mindset, when you consume art, IMO. Part of the purpose of art in general is to make you question your beliefs, to show you different perspectives and mindsets and also why they exist. That why i personally try to keep an open mind why reading comics, that i agree or don't agree politically with, this way not only i enjoy the book more, but also get a better understanding of subjects at hand.

i also thinks that the storytelling and it's elements are the deal-breaker.

Aside from that, i offer my apologies to Quinn too and respect to the decision to keep the review up. With all my respect to both sides I don't think, that there is a point for you to continue this debate. Disagreeing is a common thing, even more so on political matters . Accept it, love yourself, read and discuss comics. Peace.

Art is always going to have its biases. Art is human expression, therefore the artist is always in their art. It's up to the individual whether they can consume art, in spite of the artist's actions or opinions that they disagree. Me personally, I can. A lot of talented people aren't exactly the best role models. A lot of the musicians behind the music you enjoy are pieces of shit, for instance. I actually think it's very important to consume art from different perspectives.

One caveat though, while I can enjoy something that I disagree with, or something that comes from a person I find reprehensible otherwise, there is a limit. I can't enjoy something that is so insistent on a backwards belief or idea. I'll still read/watch/listen to it though, mostly for the sake of understanding the ideas behind it and why I dislike it.

For instance, remember that Female Furies miniseries? I thought that was an incredibly harmful comic because it basically made feminism look terrible. It ended with some weird second wave feminist gyno-state or something, if I remember correctly. It just reinforced the anti-feminist ideas that have propagated online, because the writer clearly didn't have a good grasp on the subject matter she was appropriating, and didn't know how to properly address these problems.

Meanwhile, I still enjoy and find merit in things from someone like Joss Whedon. A terribly abusive person, it turns out. I think, despite his behind the scenes actions, that shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel, and movies like Avengers and Cabin in the Woods all still have merit. And some of those actually affected social change in real life, in their own small ways. So it really is nuanced, and a case-by-case sort of thing.

The sooner DC abandons future state and dumps Tynion the better. I get that Tynions Joker us seen more favorably but I'm guessing he flunked that.

I think the problem is being the overexploitation of writers, getting constant ideas must be exhausting, not counting writer's block. The quality of many stories is falling drastically and there is nothing new on the horizon and what is new is bad or just bringing back the same thing. I expected something more from Batman / Catwoman a true relationship with action. From Damian he expects something exciting, maybe leading the league not making him out of Mortal Kombat and dying in the first issue

Taylor runs in circles over 27 Nightwing dresses and her past crawling forwards. I really miss the old stories, maybe they were darker, less progressive but they were good.Let's hope that DC recovers from this crisis and begins to raise its quality.

Fenix Tynion seems to be more concerned with throwing as many of his own creations in as possible. The problem is they're all generic and uninteresting. Remember the hype for Punchline? She landed with a whimper. Ghost maker is a h half baked deadpool.

You and I have talked about DCs financial woes but Tynion should not be writing and guiding the flagship title and the Batverse. Right now Zdarsky seems to a fan favorite and from what I've seen he is capable of lifting the quality in batman. The worst thing a superhero book can be us not fun and Tynion tookthe turnout out the book.

Read Zdarsky's Daredevil, it's fantastic.

I totally agree with a lot of what you said, Psycamorean. People consume art in a different way, it's totally your right to not enjoy something that you don't agree with( or for whatever reason really) and i'm sure some guys just can't that. Also people read these books for different reason. As a firm believer, that art is subjective , i don't believe there is any right way to consume art. Just personally, i find this way of consuming more useful , but also its not something hard to do for me.

As you said it's a really nuanced thing and i'm sure that even i can't keep that one rule always. But for me most of the time, the problem is not with the politics, but the way they are implemented and presented . I haven't read the furies series (mainly because the terrible reviews, it got), but it sounds like something similar. Don't get me wrong in no way i'm an anti-feminist, but if the themes and the politics are logically constructed and fit with the narrative, i'm good.

I think that there is room for harmful to the society art also and there can be a lot of merits to it. For example a Clockwork Orange. But for sure a thing like that is not easy to write.

Btw i totally relate to the way you feel about Joss Wheldon. While i don't condone or support behavior like his and i think, he for sure should be punished legally for it. That does not take the meaning and the enjoyment i find in big part of his work and also my appreciation for it . But tbh i never noticed his abusive behavior in his art. So his case is really a specific one.

Through history there were a lot of artists, that were problematic people and for sure sometimes is impossible to separate the artist and his work, cos sometimes the work is just that personal. It's totally normal, if that influences the way you see the work. I would argue, that happens mainly with painters and sometimes musicians, because those mediums are not always constrained by collaboration and budget.

Even in this case, it's possible to find merit in that. Seeing the world through the eyes of a person so different than you, can help you understand why people like that exists irl and it can show you how a person like that feels inside. It can disturb you, which depending on you can be a good or bad thing .Tbh everything depends on if you appreciate those sort of things, which you are not obligated to in any way.

Eventually Bendis is probably gonna write Batman for sure and having in mind, that his more grounded, dark and detective comics usually excel and if he brings up his old A game (and probably Maleev), that can be a fantastic run Imo. Zdarsky would be great too.

Zdarsky is already writing Batman in Urban Legends and even has a Justice League book coming out next week. Please don't encourage DC to put Bendis on the main Batman book!

I agree, Criminology. Huh, this is what amicable discussion is like.

Zdarsky is moreso writing a Red Hood story in Urban Legends. Batman's part of it, but that's not the same thing. Plus, it's a limited 6 issue story. I would want to see him on an ongoing Batman title.

Bendis... It's just so hard to know anymore. His Daredevil was great. His grounded work is usually better. But I didn't like Batman Universe.

The only thing I encourage Bendis to do is leave DC. His Superman titles were consistently awful. I don't want him anywhere near the two main batman books.

DCs problem is theyve locked in the future state direction at least for now. This forces the batbooks into confirming to that direction which is dragging the story telling quality down. I also blame the bloated mess Death Metal for setting this up. Tynion is not a world builder and hes a mediocre writer. I'm a batman fan and the title needs a writer that has a true grasp of the character to get the title back to a quality level. At least Zdarsky knows this.

First order of business is get Alfred back and get Wayne's wealth back to him. The decision to turn Lucius Fox into a heel in FS was stupid on all levels.

I still think we go hard and heavy towards FS and then have it averted, possibly through an event. If not, we will have to go for years in comic book time only to have a lot of bad shit happen. I think DC thinks they are clever and look at Future State as some “morality play” of sorts so that when the heroes avert it, we will all cheer about how great they are. Personally, I want stories that are new and fresh and this makes everything seem stale already

At one point DC was steering towards kingdom come as well. They abandoned that eventually.

That’s my point. They set up what they called a “possible future” that is miserable and dark. It really makes no sense to get there because what do you even do if it happens? Shut down the books and tell people to go and reread FS? Time jump ahead, but to when since books were out at different years?

Yes, I agree with you @Mingthemerciless in regards to Tyrion compulsively and carelessly playing characters. I think Gosthmaker lacks a lot to be Deathpool hahaha your comment was funny. And to my liking being that Tynion is doing a lot of damage to Batman.

Personally, I think that DC is experimenting and what they are doing is very messy and desperate. And I don't understand why Tynion is doing a decent job on the Joker and not Batman. Zdarsky may be balancing DC's books a bit, but the idea of ​​putting in bad stories to drive up prices from my perspective only ruins the book.

"Tynion wouldn't do that, he's known for his tight character work and iron-clad plotting." Hardy. Har. Har.

I don't know Tynion I was very disappointed with his Joker War, they left excellent elements for a Buum, you know Ric could have fought directly with Batman (I can imagine the drama) Tim being precarious with the metal instability of his mentor, Damian gone, Red Hood accepted with great tension between the bat (the garbage that Swan wrote does not count) instead it was a disaster.

You are wrong: it was $5. Otherwise you’re pretty much right.

$5 now, and unless we put our foot down with DC like when they pulled this 10 years ago, by the end of this year ALL their books will be $5. Extra pages or no extra pages.

i have been noticing you giving 1 out of 10 to every single DC comic. Do you hate DC Comics or something?

If you've been paying attention which I seriously doubt, I have indeed given scores higher than 1.0. Superman up in the Sky I gave a perfect 10 to as it was a flawless book. As for hating DC Comics, yeah for the most part their entire current line of comics is complete crap. The only hope is that AT&T sells to someone who cleans house and flushes the hacks out of the DC system so they can go back to telling good stories.

Agree 200% with not knowing Phantasm! I see the same thing starting with Red X in Teen Titans Academy. Introducing a cartoon character into the comics should be a big deal, but Tom King seems like he is too lazy to do any of the leg work and just hopes you watched the movie!

I have a question for Tynion. With Alfred (albeit temporarily) and Tynion positioning Lucius Fox as Batmans Q, why is Batman having to rough it for high tech gear? And setting the table for the magistrate un gotham to eventually lead to future state isn't a great idea given how poorly received it was.

This is typical Tynion lightweight story telling. He sets up Fox to be the new Alfres and caretaker of his fortune and Fox cant even maintain the gear he needs?

And giving Clownshoes and Quinn access to the batcave has to be one of the dumbest ideas in comic book history.

Quinn - Ghost-Maker is not the Clown Hunter character. They are two different characters. In an earlier issue, Ghost-Maker was going to kill Clown Hunter. Ghost-Maker is written as some vigilant rival of Bruce Wayne, who trained with him as a young man, in this storyline.

No I know ghost maker and Clownshoes are two different characters but Tynions creations are bland and interchangeable. I could have added Punchdrunk and it would work the same. Can we just get Alfred back and Tynion off the book?

Mingthemerciless, glad someone gets my humor. And bingo. Tynion’s characters are bland, interchangeable forgettable. I too await Alfred’s return. But the way Tyrion writes the book, I keep thinking Alfred is just in the kitchen, and he is not really dead. And who are they kidding. We all know he is coming back. Why bother “killing” him at all. Or I could be wrong.

I was just re-reading The Outsider story again the other night in Detective Comics #356 (October 1966). Alfred always comes back. I don't know how they will do it. But if they buried Alfred and had him come back as The Outsider, we know anything is possible. Heh and that was in "canon." Well, with "everything" being "canon" now, who knows what will happen?

myself, i prefer "eh" over the frustration of what "Ding-A-Ling" King was doing to Batman. 😂😂😂

I think if they know how to handle a Damian heading towards being the head of the Devil and taking control of the league or starting the path to that destination it would be interesting. But it's DC and its cheap new talents.

And future State, it had some good parts and I drop everything, you don't really miss a thing.

Future didnt really interest a lot of DC readers and it's probably fair to say it was too late for DC to change this issue away from the FS storyline its hinting at. But from what I'm hearing Tynion has been given the Batverse to oversee and hes clearly not up to the task. Batman is my favorite character and I waited for Snyders final run then Kings abysmal run to end so that I could start enjoying the book again. DC gave it to Snyders protege who has not even a fraction of the talent to fix it

I agree with the Part that Damian running back to her mother was a little weak but Joshua still seems to write him amazingly in the “Robin” run. Still I disagree with that the Catwoman was pushed aside, she has her own book and the last writer - tom king run had so much Bat/Cat to the point that sometimes it was unbearable, and there is still a Batman/Catwoman book by Tom King so I am happy that Catwoman is not anywhere near batman for a while, so he can be more batman and properly interact with

King and his abuse of songs and flashbacks that he does not know how to use them correctly. If the man being able to do something interesting only gives headaches and leaves things unfinished.