To be fair, Sins Rising has some nods to Sins Past that long-time readers would've picked up on. I know I did.

I must ask, what nods about Sins Past you noticed in Sins Rising?

The whole bit about Norman sniffing up on Spider-Gwen and reminiscing about the "happy times"

You can't possibly read that and NOT have Sins Past pop up in your mind.

Honestly, all the talk about sins made me think about Sins Past the entire time. And I wasn't alone in that, I recall speculation articles and posts about Sins Past being part of the run as far back as whenever Kindred started going on about sins.

Sins Past was already in people's mouths when Sins Rising was announced.

Oh yeah that, for some reason I was thinking only issues 44-47 when talking about Sins Rising. Since my collected edition has divived the latter part to "Return of the Green Goblin", my mind just didn't connect that to Sins Rising for some reason.

I remember being pleasantly surprised Marvel released Hunted in one large trade, and foolishly thought they wouldn't siphon more money out of us than necessary.

They really should've been consistent on that. 2099, Sins Rising, Last Remains, and Sinister War should've all been one large TPB.

With 2099, I would've settled with the Nick Spencer issues being included in the ASM trade. That's the only reason I bought the companion.

Forgot to comment on this but this is a very fair review. I remember how Roger Stern caught readers up to speed during his run on ASM.

(Also, obligatory plug-in to everyone that you should read Roger Stern's Spider-Man run.)

Completely agree, people seem to just love this because it is a retcon that everyone wanted. The writing here is so bad, and the journey to get here has been so tiresome

I would disagree that only new readers would be confused. If you started reading ASM in say during 2007 with BND. After 14 years and those readers would still be very lost. And I wouldn't consider those readers "new". Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that Sins Past got retconned. It's atriocius. But it happened 17 years ago and has only once in a small mini-series being brought up (ASM: American Son). So that's why it's an odd choice to suddenly retcon without any buildup in penultimate issue.

And that perhaps my biggest criticism. Instead of writing a satisfying ending to his arc, Spencer use this to retcon one of the most hated storylines in Marvel history that happened 17 years ago and half of the current readers are fortunate enough to never have read. And because they don't know, they probably won't care about this and all they see is a messy answer to who Kindred is. And I can't blame them.

I'm a casual Spider-Man reader, I wouldn't call myself the biggest fan though I do have enough knowledge with his history but this got me shaking my head all along, it was super confusing, to say the least.

@Afre While it was 17 years ago, and I'm one of those people who tends to forget it, it's still something that is brought up by countless Spider-Man fans. I feel like Spencer just did it so that we can all lay it to rest.

@Merlyn That's another thing I've been hearing how even a more experienced Spider-Man reader like yourself can be overwhelmed by how much was done in this issue. I consider myself above casual, but I don't think the number of people like me outweigh casual readers or new readers.

Even still, I'm glad this storyline was retconned to oblivion. It should've never happened in the first place or at the very least have been retconned in One More Day. This is a win in my book.

Loved the review! I agree with all you said

You know what? You should be ashamed. Claiming that most of the readers overlook everything because OMD isn't undone or we aren't getting immediate answers. Do you think the pacing in the series has been the best it could be? Or having 3 different artists is the best this course of action for this series? Or that this storyline has enough story for 7 issues?

"Nothing happens" can be argued being bullshit claim because sure, things do happen. But because they happen so sparingly and we have to wait for the next issue to happen a bit more. This whole book's problem has been how it handles pacing during Kindred stories. And because it is poor, readers lose interest. It's not like this is bad writing from Spencer. Or that he doesn't understand Spidey or that he doesn't have a plan.

The problem is that we have too many issues for so little story that it starts to become annoying when we still feel like we are at the same place as the previous issue. Miss-leading synopsis don't help. But claiming that all this outrage for this is because "OMD isn't resolved" is something to be ashamed for.

I have minor issues with the pacing, but when this book's schedule is as frequent as it is, I don't think it's a huge issue the way some people do. I don't mind multiple artists as long as they flow together, either because the styles mesh well or because there's some recognizable form of structure regarding the switches. In this issue's case, I think the styles mesh well enough.

I don't think this storyline is stretching thin on plot. In fact, I'm convinced it needed more than seven issues. I'm worried that it may not have the page count to wrap everything up. As for the Sinister War event itself, it works as its own separate miniseries. It'll read fine in trade. It's just an action book.

I think plenty happens in these issues, and this issue's reviews is a prime example of things being overlooked by a lot of people. I don't mind a slower pace when I'm invested in what's happening. The claim I'm making is that people weren't invested because answers weren't immediate, and therefore they disregard a lot. Including calling entire sections of this run filler. That's something that happened and continues to happen now.

I'll give you a hint about solicitations. Don't pay attention to them. They are meant to sell and to mislead. This is not a Spider-Man problem, this is a comics problem. I don't give a shit what some intern was paid to write. I'm judging the issue on its own merits.

I do think the outrage simply comes down to people wanting something very specific from this run and then being forced to actually read the story the writer wanted to tell while all they want is a retcon switch flipped. That's why it's the first complaint, and why everyone says the run will live or die on whether it retcons OMD or not.

I know you are personally offended by what I said here, but it wasn't aimed at you. I don't read your reviews. If it hit a nerve then that just makes me think I'm on the right track, if I'm honest. You're free to dislike this run as much as you want, I don't care. And I won't be ashamed for thinking the outrage is kind of useless.

Yeah, it does hit nerve when instead of writing why you like this comic, you focus so much on "why everyone else are wrong and don't get it but I do because I'm not like the other readers, everyone else just wants OMD undone and their complaints are bullshit but everyone has a right to their opinion. I'm smarter then others and I see what Spencer is really doing and nobody else does, they just want OMD undone. Is this good? Yeah, but my in this review, I tell why you are wrong."

I mean I don't get it why you have to focus so much explaining that "nobody else thinks this is a 10 but I do, I'm not ashamed, you readers just don't get it". This doesn't "hit a nerve" because you like it. Go ahead and like it. It does when you start writing arrogant esseys how you are the only one who gets it. For someone who always claims "I don't care what you think about this comic", you care a lot what they think about why you like it.

I never claimed to be smarter than anyone else. I fall prey to this just as much as anyone else. But my explanation for what I think Nick Spencer did with this issue is also my explanation for why I liked it. And also, I don't care that you didn't like it. But I do think it's interesting to examine why fans like or dislike a comic.

You could get over what you deem to be my arrogance because I explained why I liked the issue, just as many people here have explained how they didn't. You could challenge what I said about the contents of the issue. That's fine, go ahead, explain your side of it. But you already said the writing is good and Spencer understands the characters. It's literally a matter of pacing to you. And my whole point is that people are just rejecting this because they aren't getting the answers they want yet.

You admitted right here that that's the case with you, but I guess I'm just being arrogant to point that out.

Don't presume to think that my problem with this series' pacing is that I don't get answers.Yes that annoy me during Last Remains but I'm fine not getting answers or that OMD wasn't resolved yet. My problem with pacing in this series is that because it's basically just fighting and doesn't have nearly enough character moments in this to make it worthwhile. Otto meets Peter for the first time after what, ASM #800 and we get only few scenes of them interacting.

Otto's change of heart could've been one of the focus of this series. Same goes with Fred's sacrifice. Because Fred was basically sidelined after ASM #66, this just comes out of nowhere and doesn't have that impact Spencer hoped it could. And we have Ana and Last Son of Kraven interacting for the first time to my knowledge? Nothing. Because this whole story was just spinning it's wheels while having a bit of teases here and there, it doesn't do anything else.

Did we really need Kindred monologuing for 4 issues about the same stuff? No. I said Spencer is an excellent writer and understands the characters, but that potential isn't used here. It's just fighting with a plot that moves with snail's pace. Strange and Mephisto really didn't do anything here either. Just more teasing. So that is my problem with pacing. Not having the OMD undone or answers to Kindred's backstory. It has the same horrible pacing King's Batman run had and other similarities.

So yes I do think you're being too arrogant thinking what my problems with this are.

The whole point of this miniseries is the fight. I don't think shoving Otto in would've helped anything. And what do you mean, Fred was sidelined? There was only one arc between King's Ransom and Sinister War. And people were complaining about Fred being so prominent in the series before that. His sacrifice really doesn't come out of nowhere if you remember the whole point of his character arc in this run. As for Ana and Kraven interacting, what would be the place for that?

This miniseries is one big fight scene. They're fighting for their souls. At what point would there be time for them to have a conversation about anything? The whole point of Kindred's monologue is that Peter deserves this for how he's impacted those around him. Fred's sacrifice and Otto's betrayal fly in the face of that. That's the story here.

Most of your complaints are just you wanting something the story wasn't giving you, not about the merits of the story itself. The only one that's not that is your point about Fred's sacrifice, but I don't know what to tell you about that. Boomerang disappeared for what, four issues if you include the Chameleon one-shot? This miniseries has shown more than once that he is partial to Spider-Man. His whole motivation going into this event was to find a missing person, which is a heroic thing to do.

His sacrifice only comes out of nowhere if you're not paying attention.

Oh and you talk about the misleading solicitations? The solicitations for this miniseries has been on point. Did you want them to lie to you this time? I don't know what you expected here but everything points to this being a giant fight and that's what it was.

#2: "Spidey’s classic problem has been multiplied by two and you don’t even know the HALF of it. Twelve of Spidey’s greatest villains are out for blood: Spider-Man’s and each other’s! Ock and Vulture make their big plays this issue that are going to shake up NYC in ways you didn’t think were possible!" - Neither of them barely appear in the issue.

#3: "• You haven’t read the end of SINISTER WAR #2 yet, but when you do, YOU WILL BE VERY MAD YOU HAD TO WAIT TWO WEEKS FOR THIS! • Things have never been worse for Spider-Man, and it’ll be a MIRACLE if he makes it through this alive." - TBH, this was pretty correct, most of us were annoyed that after lackluster second part we had to wait two weeks for something happen.

#4: "Things just got worse for Spider-Man. IT Didn’t seem possible, but it’s true. If you think you have seen Spider-Man take a beating, you haven’t seen anything this brutal." - Well, they didn't Opposite really. Things got better and Spidey got much worse beating during Last Remains, so...

And Fred's sacrifice feels cheap. Three panels and that's it. After 67 issues of buildup and that is it. I just wanted more for that. And Otto's betrayal just isn't explored enough, like I said. This whole event is just fighting for their souls yes, but is that the worthwhile conclusion that Hunted, King's Ransom, Last Remains, Chameleon Conspiracy? Hell, even Lizard's duplicate isn't addressed. All this is supposed to be a grand conclusion but it's just fighting and nothing really concludes.

And you can't honestly think that Kindred's monologue has anything worthwhile to add. It's just same shit his said since Last Remains and it's starting to get so tedious. There are some good parts the buried deep, but when most of it is just "You bad Pete, sins Pete, sins, remember sins?" It's so overdone. And I share the same problem as you. There are only 2 issues left and so much to wrap up. It doesn't feel like it will be a worthy conclusion to all this Spencer's teasing and buildup.

You rate everything 10/10 when it comes to this ASM series, so you're not even reliable.

I'm pretty sure the second issue has Doc Ock's Sinister Six and the Savage Six go after Spider-Man. And this latest synopsis is referring to the cliffhanger of last issue where things did indeed get worse. And really, Spider-Man was killed more in Last Remains, I guess? But beaten? Not at all.

Fred's sacrifice is what turns the tables and gives Spider-Man a way to survive a massive fight. It may have been quick but it was pivotal to Spider-Man surviving this. I don't know where you got the idea that this was the conclusion. But that's issue 74 apparently. At least going by the solicitation.

And I think Kindred's narration is important to the story because otherwise the conclusion to this miniseries doesn't have an impact.

@Federico Liguori When did I say I was reliable? This is my opinion and I'll defend it if you have an argument to make.

You think Spidey didn't take a worse beating during his fight with Kindred and after that torture? I would say. And in Sinister War #2, Sinister Six appears in two pages and alongside Savage Six in the final page. So no, I wouldn't say they did "big plays".

And I don't know would I say this is a conclusion, it's not like this is the final issue of this mini-series or that it's called "Sinister War: Conclusion"... Yes we still have two issues more but you really think Spencer has enough time to conclude every setup and teasing? And maybe the monologue would be more important if it wasn't the 20th time he does it. Without adding anything. If you pay attention to the series, you'll see that Kindred has done this same monologue so many times.

It is a conclusion to this story, but you are treating it as though it's the conclusion to all the plot threads brought up by those other arcs, when issue 74 is the issue that claims that.

Maybe I just want some kind of conclusion. It's so annoying to have this series be such a letdown for me. I've been huge fan of Spencer's run, and seeing stumble during the finish line so much is so annoying after reading this for 3 years. Especially when I know that he could do so much better. So yeah, even if our conversation can be strong, I don't mind you giving it a 10. Maybe I'm jealous that I can't enjoy it as much as you do. Even when I want to.

Great comparison to Jorge Jimenez on Batman. It amazes me on how Jorge Jimenez did the art for 12 straight issues of Batman with the latter half coming out twice monthly. I think most of the arcs (meaning stories with more than one issue) in the run had a secondary artist/inker/colorist. I mean, the first arc of the run had a different inker for the last few pages.

While I was frustrated with Sinister War's impression on me, it actually saddens me how I'm not the only one hating on this book. Hell, I'M sadden that I ended up hating the run. I'm just ready for this run to end so we can all move on from this and, hopefully, Beyond turns out to be a much better run despite multiple artists continuing to be a thing.

Yeah, and it really sucks Marvel screwed this up. I want both companies to succeed but MAN this was pretty disappointing. It's not the worst like Sins Past or Clone Saga or One More Day, but this was such a disappointing story. I honestly can't believe I'm dropping Spider-Man over Batman and Superman for god sakes.

This run started out so well and it just meandered to me personally. But I'm just ready to move on at this point. As for everything seemingly going down in #875, Nick Spencer better find a way to wrap it up superbly or it's gonna be a day in hell on the review section of that issue as well as the Spider-Man comics fandom as a whole.

You know what really bugs me? This story was suppose to say "Spider-Man is going to face the WORST Beating of his life" and literally the only thing that happens in this story is a C LIST Villain gets murdered. Like Come on man, what the hell happened? That is totally lame and underwhelming

Oh I saw spoilers for that. That blows despite the fact that it was something I would expect Nick Spencer to do.

Wait, I was about to write a review about this issue but it was slowly just becoming a response to your review, so I'd rather just do that here. Spider-Man did get relentlessly beaten in this event, if that's what you're looking for, every issue from 2 onward is a big fight. And the issue shows Doc Ock do everything he explains to Peter. We see him extract the centipede from Sin-Eater's head and we see him take one of Black Ant's antennas and reconfigure it. That's all in the issue.

You bring up good points psycamorean. I am gonna change my review

The only thing I really agree with is the Mephisto stuff, but I re-read the beginning of issue one, and although it was clearly written to make you think One More Day, it also makes sense as an intro and ending. The fight was the game of luck, and Peter's influence on these characters tilted the scale in Peter's favor of... surviving. He beat Mephisto by changing Boomerang and Doc Ock for the better as people, because without them, he'd be dead.

I don't like how manipulative that was, but I do still think it works.

This event feels like if avengers endgame failed. Whats even worse is that Nick spencer recycles the same plot for every issue instead of progressing the plot. Spider man meets up bad guy, the bad guy beats him up, spider man escapes. Rinse and repeat