Yo they killed Alfred ?

The execution is poor. By keeping Alfred a secret, there is no building of suspense. Instead of intense nervousness, we get a huh? The death won’t stick. Or I could be wrong.

Precisely. As often with King, it's shock for the sake of shock. Hope the next writer will retcon his crap.

don't worry. writers like Peter Tomasi have had to clean up after worse messes than this. Batman will be on another mission to some other supernatural world to resurrect Alfred. ....everything Tom King does just feels like a cheep gag. who the hell actually falls for this crap?

Or it gets ignored. I mean Kings run doesn’t fit at all with Year of the Villains,Alfred is alive in Doomsday Clock& Detective Comics also ignores it. With a better writer it could have been a great story, but King isn’t talented enough.

With a better writer it was a great story. it was called Knightfall by Chuck Dixon. a real comic writer. not this fly-by-night shoemaker.

True.

Exactly& waste of money, you bought it.

if

For those who are curious - this review has more or less as many words as the actual comic. The difference is, it's not stretched to fill 30 pages.

Yeah exactly, but some people are actually praising this issue.

I’m convinced King has just made a bunch of dummy accounts and is hyping himself.

Probably lol But people are already getting angry, if you point out, that it was bad.

i wouldn't exactly say they get angry. they become more of an irritable butthurt.

That’s true. Like the person on twitter said he doesn’t have the time to explain the plot to me, but he sure had time to write butthurt comments lol

hahahaha! they should start a group for all his twitter Zealots. call it the Cult of Butthurt. ......Beep! Beep! :D

Agreed. The guy blocked me now lol ........Beep! Beep!

It's like DCEU's apologists at this point. They'll efend anything, doesn't matter if that's an empty comic with no plot, or face tattoos on Joker and Harley. Zealots, that's what they are indeed.

We get it... Bats is stuck in a nightmare. But we got it a couple issues ago.

It was clear to see from the first issue of the arc. Oh look, fear gas nonsense, such a novel concept. It’s worse than anime filler.

I think it had potential, if the nightmares were cooler. If it’s really the fear gas ( what seems like quite a random explanation) it could have been a lot better. There are many stories with interesting Fear gas illusions.

this story is probably meta? Tom King is trying to give the readers actual nightmares. ....nightmares about bad story-telling.

They already stated like 6 or so issues ago, who can tell when they have all been pointless, that it's a fear gas induced experience.

Bruce suspected that in one of his dreams. The people he me there are himself, since it’s his dream. So it could be something completely else in the end.

i very much doubt this will be spun into some big surprise. this series has been phoned in for quite a long while now, and it ain't getting any prettier.

I hope it’s more than that, since I don’t want Scarecrow to get involved in this stupid plot.

at this point, i'm hoping it'll be Bruce's dog.

Lol that would be something new at least

Agreed

I'm sick of King apologists deflecting any criticism by believing all this trash is leading somewhere as well. It's here and now, and what we get is beyond terrible.

Even if it does lead somewhere, the journey has to be enjoyable on its own.

It got 9,5 on Batman News. So maybe we missed the deeper story behind it lol

Nope. There was no deeper story. I do see people on the CBR forums talking about how symbolic it is and it drives me nuts. It’s always leading somewhere without ever actually being anywhere.

Same on Twitter. Even so the one praising it couldn’t explain to me, why it is so awesome. He was just butthurt.

the King apologists will throw undeserved praise and swallow up any bile he pukes out.

I don’t get that. If a writer writes a bad story I point it out, even so it is my favorite writer. I consider Dan Jurgens a great writer, but he disappointed me with Batman Beyond.

It's a pretty bad analogue between Batman and Joker's relationship and Wile E. Coyote and The Roadrunner's relationship. That's literally it.

Like I said if that’s really it, it should be a backup story.

It's tribalism, fanboyism at its purest. "Me likes Batman, so me must likes this comic", and then, once someone has that mindset, they look for confirmation of their beliefs anywhere they can. "Oh, sales didn't drop so it must be good", "oh, critics gave it a good rating and you didn't - guess who's right?", etc.

Agreed. Not all critics gave it a good rating though.

Some of the people I've dealt with love to cherry pick things that make them "right" so those bad critic ratings will be waved away as "They're always negative" or "more critics liked it". If the ratings were reversed, these types would just say you can't trust critics. They'll always be "right" in their mind.

I think a lot of people do that though. I’m sure I do it too.

I tend to think I'm always right insofar as it's my opinion. But I can recognize that people may dislike things I like. And I don't try to justify my opinions through other people.

i totally agree about the fanboys being the same as tribalism. or perhaps even cultism? a bunch of brainwashed, kool-aid swallowing cultists. they wear blinders to any and all criticisms. ...they are allowed to have their opinions, but anyone who disagrees with them is not allowed to have an opinion.

Nah, you all didn't get it.

I am sure there are some 6-piece puzzles that can entertain you, though.

Took you two whole weeks to come up with that? Lol. Weak

Whoops. 1 week. Just seemed like 2.

@Br'er Lapin Oh cry me a river. What a classic display of castrated ad hominem attack. "You dislike what I like, so I must discredit you". Hell outta here with this.

(I wasnt serious.) I wanted the troll to go longer, but I was actually making a callback to a Discord chat I had with Greenmuse when we were arguing about Tom King Batman or something.

Actually, I think it was Inception. Idk. Way too many arguments, I lose track.

*Friendly* arguments. Also, I want an edit button.

The context was that I said I was too dumb to enjoy Inception. Br'er Lapin said I was the reason six piece puzzles exist. I responded with "Any piece fits with a hammer."

Also, I would like to point out that Nihilist basically said the exact same thing about Tom King Batman fans as he thought I was saying about those who do not like it. People like Batman by Tom King, so it must be because people just love anything with Batman on it. Kind of hypocritical, yes? It might be possible someone just, y'know... likes Tom King Batman. I could be wrong of course, I mean, I like the book. So, apparently I am wrong by default. #KingGate

Fact. Anyone who like Kings Batman is automatically wrong. Admitting it is the first step. Also, I wish there was an edit button too.

this comic felt like a two piece puzzle.

I stopped reading it at issue 15. Like what TK did with Vision, guess he did a great job with Mr. Miracle (not my cup o' tea) but cannot stand the world's greatest detective in this form. Wish Tomasi was writing it.....or even Tom Taylor since he did a great job on the Annual......Oh well. At least it saves me money.

@Br'er Lapin That's false equivalency. While I stated there are blind tribalist fanboys defending King's writing no matter what, that try to silence or discredit anyone they disagree with, I never called anyone specifically that. You did. There are fanboys in every demographic, every fanbase. They do exist - stating they do isn't an attack, it's a fact. And yes, they also lookfor validation at all cost, using sale numbers or critics' opinions to prove something is OBJECTIVELY good or bad.

I didn't though, I just made a joke. Also people liking things you don't doesn't mean they are a fanboy. Maybe you would know this if you didn't only stay within your echo chamber. So are you saying every critic is a fanboy? If people are pointing to critics, it is probably because you are falsely claiming nobody likes it. That logic fails on multiple accounts. There are Batman fanboys who both love and hate this book. Liking or hating any book is merely an opinion.

Unless that book is Batman Odyssey. :^)

ARRRRRG!!! don't mention Batman Odyssey!! i'm still having nightmares. x'D

Read my previous two posts again, Br'er. The first contains a statement, the other answer to questions you now ask after reading it. Tl;dr - I didn't attack anyone for liking or disliking something. I addressed blind fanboyism and tribalistic tendencies of those who can't accept other people may have different opinions. Something you now are trying to twist around.

Nihilist does have a lot of good points. ...all fan bases have their die hard zealots. but i do tend to notice a good percentage of TK fanbois that really get out of hand with those that disagree with them. ...now this is not to say that absolutely ALL TK fans are like this. but the ones that do go to the extreme usually are pretty unstable about it.

If I am twisting your words, my bad. It was just how I read your quote meant to represent Batman fans. Also tribalism is a guarantee for a book as big as Batman, especially one as divisive as Tom King Batman. Both sides fuel the hate or love of the other side I feel like. Many runs have gone through this like Dan Slott's Spider-man, and I actually dig quite a lot of that run as well (even though it was hit and miss overall for me).

So, even though I may be on the opposing side of whether this run is good or bad, no, I get it. I have hated plenty of runs and their fanbase has annoyed me. *cough*Hunt for Wolverine*cough*Death of the Inhumans*cough*

Technically not runs, but you get the point.

Absolutely, I fully agree - the larger the subject, the more extremes on both side it'll attract. Same with Bendis' Superman right now. Possibly Heroes in Crisis as well, albeit I guess the general consensus about it is, it's trash, and I don't see many people actually oppossing to that with proper arguments. King has become a truly divisive, if not openly hated writer these days. Shame, firt 3 arcs of his run were amazing.

Nah man, the ENTIRE run has been trash.

Nihilist and Br'er Lapin, it's good to see you both come to a mutual understanding. it's all too easy for things to get out of hand when discussing comics. .....with that being said, i do have to agree with Talon1laod. i can't think of but two issues that i fully enjoyed. i've despised a good most of it. 😆😆😆😆

Br'er Lapin doesn't dislike almost any DC comic.

Says the Marvel fanboy.

It's no shame to be a fan of better things

If there were a better thing to be found, maybe. Marvel is no better than DC, in fact they have arguably more offensive business practices and money grabs.

Even indie publishers can't be claimed to be any better. Everyone publishes trash.

Marvel just publishes the most. 80-90 books a month and only a handful of them are legit great.

even though there are (or rather were) Marvel characters that i absolutely loved, i refuse to buy them due to how many time Marvel has burned me in the past. DC has been starting to follow the same dark path for a few years now. ...quantity over quality. and more variant covers that you could shake a Bat-a-rang at. ...or forcing a LONG run from a writer that has no clear idea of what story they are trying to tell.

Absolutely. Marvel also constantly reboots their books due to low sales. When you look at their charts, it's for the most part #1s. DC needs to get their act together again, and put some effort into their books. Been a long while since I was satified with more than 1-2 comics per week, usually it's 0-1 tops.

I currently like Marvel better. At the moment they have the most books per week I'm looking forward to picking up and often deliver on being good. Ever since CB Cebulski became editor in chief and they began their Fresh Start relaunch, they've kinda been on a roll, for me at least, even if at first I was too much of a DC fanboy to admit it. I would just like to say there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking one publisher over the other, however.

Marvel definitely improved since the change, mostly thanks to the purge of writers who had no right writing anything outside of a Twitter post. When you read every book though you realize the quantity of lackluster books far outweighs the good. That is why I have dropped like all but Venom, Immortal Hulk, ASM, Iron Man, and Conan. DC basically repeated Marvel's mistake by filling the market with subpar New Age ot Heroes books (although there are a few exceptions... or maybe just 1)

Vertigo is also a shitshow, like aside from the Sandman Universe. The Dreaming has a lot to live up to with Sandman and somehow it doesn't feel gross or misplaced.

Marvel didn't purge many writers. The biggest creative shakeup was losing Bendis. Arguably a good thing. Writers were just put on new things. It was an actual creative refresh, not just another relaunch. And I really don't care about their publishing practices or their relaunches to begin with. All I care about is the quality of the stories being told and they are definitely on a roll right now, as Ohhaimark has said.

ASM, FNSM, Venom, Thor, Avengers, Captain America, Punisher, Runaways, Immortal Hulk, Conan, Jessica Jones, Guardians of the Galaxy, Daredevil, Invaders, Uncanny X-Men, Tony Stark: Iron Man, Age of X-Man etc. All those ongoing titles are ones that I look forward to reading each and every time they're out. DC has Justice League Dark, that Batman series Kurt Busiek was working on, which isn't an ongoing, and Detective Comics.

I'm not trying to be a fanboy, but how can I call the shit DC piles on regularly gold?

I agree for the most part. I liked New Age of Heroes conceptually. It was a good idea to add some new characters, diversify the roster. I didn't expect many of these new books to last long, though. Silencer and The Terrifics were the entire line's highlights, so I'm glad they're still being published. The rest... Well, not many people misses them, I suppose. I'm okay with such experiments - at least DC didn't ruin characters by incompetent reinventions again, like they did with New-52.

The worst of the New Age of Heroes were the Immortal Men, New Challengers, The Unexpected and Sideways.

I like Terrifics, Silencer, and Sideways. I liked the idea too, unfortunately they treated it as an after thought. Most of the big writers got second credit for writing, and you could tell they didn't have very much to do with them.

I think that's just an excuse for the writers putting out bad shit. The writers getting second credit was a publicity move by DC after Marvel got flack for saying artists don't move units. And given that the New Age of Heroes are all ended or ending besides Terrifics, maybe they were right.

They had writing credits though. Open up any New Age of Heroes and it will have two writers. Too many cooks and all that.

They had "storyteller" credits. In place of writer and artist.

No, they were also credited for the art.

Scratch that. It actually varies issue to issue, but clearly they had some duty on the story, Sideways was wildly different when Dan DiDio went all in (for the worse)