I dumped this book after seeing issue 2. It's another bait and switch to suck readers in hoping to more Keaton/Burton Batman then making it about race politics. Thanks but I ll stick with Burtons vision.

Yeah, I think I'm dumping it, too, I just can't see it getting any better in the last two issues. I do like how he writes Dent, though.

I'll get the last two issues just because I'm a completist but I don't see it getting any better.

Yeah, I can't wait to see Batman put in his place even more by Sam Hamm's Robin, that will be a true joy...

Lol, you seem so insecure. What a great job they did by “reigning him in” so we could get the cinematic masterpieces of Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.

Lol, you seem such an idiot. Even those movies are better than this crap. No regrets there. Sam Hamm is a demented moron and we're better off without his racial obsession.

Btw I see we've done this dance before. You came at me like a moron with nothing to say, I blocked you, then I unblocked you in the hopes that maybe I should give you another chance and you'll get better. I see you're still very, very idiotic. Choose your next words carefully or I'll block you again, and this time for good.

Yeah because 89 Batman would have been so much more successful if Hamm had made it about race politics. It's well documented that Hamms weiting was changed because it didnt align with what Burton wanted to direct.

This book literally has Steve opine about missing the old days of Captain America and shows that it was that idea to fight for the true American dream that inspired people. You say it tells to "hate the past" lol. Completely missed the point.

Just shut up already, haven't you got tired of uttering nonsense?

Im speaking truth to the lie. Either you didn't actually read this book and got a summary off of some youtuber and fell for his willful misinformation regarding this books plot, or you read it, your deep fried brain filtered out anything that didn't support this victim complex you got going on, and you were left with a product you only could call "propaganda" by straight up lying about its contents and message. Either way, obvious failed effort.

You're a failed effort at a human being. You're so dumb you can eat your belly full of propaganda and your tiny little brain won't even know it. Steve Rogers would never say that the American dream was a lie, that's Cantwell's poisonous ideologically driven progressive thinking. But you're so dumb you wouldn't recognize propaganda if it slap you on the face.

lol cool story, are you going to try to storm the capitol again?

... What? If you've got nothing to say, go away so I won't block you but otherwise we're here to talk comics not to spout crazy talk.

He ever said the American dream was a lie. You literally didn't even read this book lol. He said the REAL American dream is that, a dream that must be fought for. It must be achieved through hard work and unity. You see propaganda there, then turn ideology is incompatible with those america was built upon.

He literally said that the American dream was a lie, you're just trying so, so hard to make your ideas fit his narrative. Try harder.

"But lately, spending my days in this country, as the years March on by -- I'm starting to think America actually has two dreams. And one lie." "A good dream is shared. Shared radically. Shared with everyone. When something isn't shared, it can become the American lie." There you guy. Your American lie laid bare once more. He NEVER said the American dream was a lie. He said the o r people WASNT the real American dream was a lie. And it is. One you've fallen for.

He said the one that*

Ok, I see you're very idiotic and there isn't a chance you'll get better so just shut up now, please. Otherwise I'll block you because I'm really tired of your nonsense.

Lol oh no, *gasp* say it ain't so?! Blocked by the great Merlyn?!?!? How will I ever go on?

Well, you won't lol.

In the face of truth your lies have nothing. Sorry, I actually read this book. And its solid. Not perfect. But definitely not propaganda. And even if it was. Captsin America is a propaganda character. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that sadly.

Nope, you're just too dumb to understand what you're reading. Fortunately other people here understood and saw it for the propaganda it is. Again, shut up or you go after Iceman. I don't HAVE to let you go away with your stupidity.

I dont take orders from you. Block me and keep your safe space if you want. You react like many do who propagate the American lie when faced with the truth. It's the same every time and always will be. Have a good one.

Fine, if that's the heal you want to die on, have it your way, I warned you several times now. Cooling break for you too.

*hill

So much for the tolerant right. Always censoring dissenting ideas and opinions.

I didn't censor them. Iceman came here solely to insult me. Toonstrack told REPEATEDLY his stupidities, I told him I don't care about them, he insisted on shoving them down my throat even though I warned him so he forced my hand. See that you don't do the same.

That is censorship. You didn't like his opinion and that he was willing to argue for it, so you shut it down with insults of your own. While also condemning Iceman for insulting you, like it was somehow beyond the pale for this level of conversation.

Don't know if you noticed but this is MY review, I didn't go on his review to shove my opinions down his throat. I let him say those stupidities several times but he wouldn't stop. And I don't have to explain myself to you, btw. I can just block you back, since you insist on insulting me in other comment sections.

Alright, don't actually face your criticisms, I guess.

Funny how you're against people calling you out in their reviews and insist that they comment on your reviews about it, and then when they do, you use it being your review as reason to ignore and block anyone who thinks different from you.

Yeah, I'm tired of assholes ramming their ideology down my throat, sue me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxkhwJCoq84

Tf? Did your buddy Psycamorean who likes all your reviews sent you to bother me or something? :))

maybe he'd like your reviews too if they were good

Hey Merlyn, can you please explain to me why you dont like this book? I re-read it, and is your problem only because Captain America says he doesnt believe in the American Dream anymore?

He does believe in the American Dream still, he just says that it's not shared with everyone. It's not accessible to everyone like it should be. And that's what he's fighting for, The American Dream as it should be and always has been, not what we call the American Dream now. The American Lie is a twisted version of the American Dream that gets preached at people, yet doesn't actually mean anything. The dream he's fighting for is the American Dream as intended.

@daspidaboy: My main problem is that this is a message that I've read from Cantwell over and over again, I kinda knew this is what I would get and yet, I naively hoped that it would be otherwise. Yes, the whole American Dream and aMeRiCaN LiE cringe really annoyed me but the overall message was even more poisonous. Cantwell complains about Cap being used as propaganda tool WHILE doing just that, which is absurd.

Also, given the context I can see where this is going. The villains are, obviously, the anti-minorities whites (did you notice that even though for most of the fight, the guy who attacked Cap was obscured, yet they've shown his face in a panel just to make sure we get he's a white guy). And yet Cantwell preached about unity in the same book he's playing the same old dividing game. That hypocrisy I just can't stand, This isn't about unity for America, it's progressive agenda, the exact opposite.

Also, the cover presents 4 Caps but of course a guy like Cantwell doesn't care about Bucky and Walker. In all honesty I'm terrified of how he'll treat Walker, I almost don't want him to appear in the book. The sad thing is he also put his cringey humor in Sam's mouth, which sounded totally not like Sam, and pretty stupid.

Tldr, Steve Rogers is not Steve Rogers here, he's just a moutpiece for Cantwell's ideological beliefs, the Steve Rogers who served in WWII wouldn't come up with that "american lie" crap.

*mouthpiece

What about this issue is divisive? The whole point of the miniseries is to show off different aspects of America, as a United States (hence the title). You're the only one obsessed with race here. I honestly can't even fathom how you're coming to these conclusions. It boggles the mind and I have to assume it's willful ignorance.

The Steve Rogers in the comics has always been a progressive person. He's long recognized that America has problems. Since the fucking 60s.

You should be thankful I unblocked after you sent your buddy here to spam me even though, I should add, he NEVER commented on one of my reviews before. This is harassment. Stop it.

I didn't send anyone to spam you. How about you address what I said?

Also, I replied to daspidaboy, not you, mind that, please.

Yes, you sent Spacey Medicine, stop lying. Again, I didn't address you because I don't care about you have to say.

I didn't send Spacey, they are their own person. You should be able to address what I said. Since you can't, I can only assume you don't have anything good to say. We saw it earlier in this very comment thread. You always play dismissive victim when you have nothing better.

Ok, I really don't care what a liar believes about me, whatever.

It's not belief, it's fact. Your betrayed by comments upon comments showing just what I said.

K.

I should add, for anyone who may not understand how much of a liar this guy is, after I've blocked him because he repeatedly insulted me (not on this review, on another), just 10 minutes later the guy whose reviews he always likes, every single one of them (and that guy does the same for him), his best buddy came here to spam me even though he never commented on any of my reviews ever, unlike Psycamorean. And I'm supposed to believe that "just happened", he didn't push him to come and spam me.

Spacey doesn't like my reviews. The reason I like her reviews is because they usually come out much, much later than the comics are released. And I think by liking them, I'm giving the reviews a slight boost being followed by 27 people or something. I didn't send Spacey but I don't know how to prove that, so I figured I'd give my reasoning on the rest.

You'll excuse me if I find the timing of the coincidence pretty fucking questionable.

I do the liking thing for other users too, btw.

Well, you can have your conspiracy I guess, I don't really give a shit. What I post and what I say is what I'm responsible for. Anything my friends do and say are their business. I do endorse what Spacey said though. I would like your reviews if they were good.

Merlyn, excuse me if I am mistaken, but do you really think, that the villains are going to be anti-minorities, just because one of them appears to be white in one panel not even that clearly , when it's possible that the bad guys here are not even connected and we literally don't know nothing about them? Like it's possible for the woman to be a person of color or maybe they are both robots, cos we don't have any info about them. We don't know what their goals are even more so motivations.

But even if they are white and anti-minorities, why should we think that this represent the whole race? Personally I don't see any reason to believe any of that on the basis that this particular issue gave me. Btw I'm not trying to provoke you or anything, I'm just curious and wanna see your reasoning.

Because if you know Cantwell, you know that's what he believes. He believes whites are racist, white America is trash and he loathes them. I've seen it on his twitter, I've seen remarks here and there in his work. I really wish I'm going to be wrong but I would be kidding myself to really think that.

Link some tweets.

Serious question: are you going to insert yourself in every conversation I have with other people? Because if the answer is "yes", I'm going to have to block you again. You seem to have no other concern here but come and bother me all the time. Like, take a break, I don't stalk you on other websites, I don't comment on all of your reviews. And if you think I'm going to start digging through Cantwell's tweet history just so you can have your "proof", well, there's another surprise coming for you.

Well, personally I would like to see some of those tweets too, if that will motivate you to send some links, but I understand that can be a pretty big favor to ask. But I get your point, still nothing from what you said is present in this book, so why judge this issue for things that are not here? Sounds like guesses, based on his personal life and personal decisions. So the hypocrisy you were talking about is not really here yet at least, and the book is still about unity, without divide.

Feel free to correct me, if you need to

Yeah, I'm not going to dig through some guy's twitter that posts a lot daily. But I can assure you the tweets are there. That said, it's pretty clear you were never going to change your mind regardless of what my answer would've been so I'm left to wonder what did you expect out of this exchange. There are snippets of those beliefs, even though much more veiled than how I expressed them but you don't want to see them. And that's okay, I guess, but I can't do anything for you for that matter.

The hypocrisy about pushing progressive viewpoints while complaining that Cap has been used as a political propaganda tool in the past is pretty fucking obvious.

Merlyn ,you sound kinda mad to me and if you really are I really don't see a reason to, we were just having a civil discussion. You don't have to wonder, I told what my motives are. I was just curious to see more of your reasoning on a certain subject and I wanted to see, if it really has to do something with the book or not. That's one of the main functions of the site, to understand each other better, not even necessary agree. Also to challenge ourselves, which I am doing too.

You can think, that i am doing all that cos i hate you or that i am just arguing cos i can't accept me being wrong, but honestly i really believe what i preach and that's why i am defending it with arguments. Giving me any specific hint on the villains being white anti-minority guys and the divide that creates with the themes here, is enough for me, as long as those things are in the issue. Again I am specifically talking about the villains, especially this quote:

"The villains are, obviously, the anti-minorities whites (did you notice that even though for most of the fight, the guy who attacked Cap was obscured, yet they've shown his face in a panel just to make sure we get he's a white guy). And yet Cantwell preached about unity in the same book he's playing the same old dividing game. That hypocrisy I just can't stand, This isn't about unity for America, it's progressive agenda, the exact opposite."

If you don't feel like answering to me or you think you've done enough on that front , just say it. I won't be an asshole about it and I would agree to disagree.

I'm not mad, it's just that it's obvious I see it some way, you see it the opposite way and I'm not sure any of us has it in his mind to tilt away from his ideas.

I respect that.

But, in all fairness, I don't like to repeat myself but for you I'll make this exception once. Again, Cantwell's whole belief system is that the American white picket fence dream is a lie because it "doesn't along well with other cultures". I feel like it's pretty obvious what the underlying message there is. Whites racist, the old days were bad, America was a lie bla-bla-bla. Then, in the fight against Cap,we don' see the clouded figure but a few panels later we get a glimpse of him,just enough

to get sure we understand he's white. Add to that Cantwell's repeated racism towards whites and wokeness and 1 plus 1 equals 2. I know, it doesn't matter what I said because ultimately you see what you want to see. Or, to be more precise, you don't want to see what you don't want to see. And regardless of my replies, you'll still see nothing there. It's why I think that we can talk about this until tomorrow and we won't reach the same conclusion.

Well, Americana has been romanticized into this perfect point in American history, when it never really existed. What people think of when they of, say, the 50s, is basically a giant advertisement or a TV show. Nothing real. And that whole idea has been used by politicians like Reagan and Trump to bolster their campaigns built on dividing people into different groups. "Make America Great Again" is harkening back to the White Picket Fence that never existed. To Americana.

Oh it does matter, it's about sharing the different perspectives. I think I see your point of view better now. Don't get me wrong I still think you are reading way deeper into the guy being white to come to such a radical conclusion, but I see where you are coming from, which is good enough for me.

The old days were filled with violence, fear and hatred, and that should not be ignored because if we ignore that, then when someone like Trump uses that same fear to drive our country in a bad direction with the promise of the white picket fence, people start to believe in this false advertisement we've all been sold based on media and a whitewashed version of reality. We're not thinking of the actuality of it. We're thinking of TV and advertisements that show that everything was perfect.

Again, will you stop spamming me? Do you realize you're commenting about a book you haven't even reviewed here? Are you that obsessed with me? Stop spamming me, don't you get by now that I don't care about what you have to say, that your opinions mean nothing to me? Why would I care what someone who hates America thinks about this subject?

Reagan was probably the best US president in modern history, along with Woodrow Wilson. But of course for an American hater like you he was bad, I would expect nothing less. I don't think Trump drove America in a bad direction, that's what Biden is doing now by kneeling to China. Though we should be used by now with that, he's been on his knees with BLM too and he's been kneeling to China ever since the good old Obama era and Hunter making money in China.

You commenting here when you haven't even read or review the book shows me you're obsessed with me. Adding to that the fact that you stalked me on disqus and put Spacey Medicine to comment here kind of scares me if I'm honest, the overall picture sound pretty unhealthy. Stop harassing me or I'll have to block you again because I really don't want to have tens of comments here with someone who seems to have a sick obsession with me.

I'm not spamming you, I'm explaining why the white picket fence fallacy actually is a thing. I haven't reviewed it, but I have read it. I read everything for the week before I review anything. I didn't explain the white picket fence fallacy for you though. I explained it for anyone who doesn't understand it. I don't hate America. I am American.

I won't even get into your opinion of those presidents, because that's too much crazy for me.

As we've seen in the last yeas there are plenty of American who hate America. You're one of them. Because America doesn't fall on its knees to fit your ideology, you're eager to throw everything it means to the trash in the hopes other sick people like you will mold it into what you dream it to be. Spoiler: it won't happen. But I know that doesn't mean you'll stop your efforts.

Do get, though. I'm particularly curios about what's wrong in your mind with Wilson. I guess he was too "nationalist" for you, right?

I didn't stalk you on disqus, nor did I send anyone to comment on your reviews. I have read this issue though and I'm talking about it here.

Why here? I rated it with 3.5, there are people rating it with less. But of course you're talking about it HERE. Soon you won't, don't worry. And next time I'll block you for good because I'm tired of stalkers.

I think America at its heart is a progressive idea. It was built by immigrants, we put a lot of worth in our cultural diversity, and we put a lot of worth in our freedom. Unfortunately, America hasn't lived up to its ideals. I believe in and fight for the ideals that America is supposed to have, but doesn't. Just like Captain America says in this issue. America is my home and I want to make it better.

Woodrow Wilson was an internationalist. He wanted to bring world peace, but was terrible at it. He sent our country into war that fucked the economy, meanwhile he let civil liberties at home get trampled. He's actually not typically hated by progressives btw, despite all of that.

I commented here because it was already where the discussion was happening.

I call bullshit on all that but congrats, progressives always know how to package their hate into "love and tolerance". And the part about Wilson... I guess his Fourteen Points meant nothing to you.

Well, in the future feel free to start the discussion on YOUR review so I won't get spammed here.

I mean, it's not bullshit. I do want love and tolerance, and I do want America to be great. I didn't mention everything he did, just the parts that I dislike about his presidency. And to correct you on the nationalism thing. He had high minded ideas but no good way to implement them, and it cost the country.

The original reason you got angry with me was for bringing you up on my reviews when I disagreed, so I hope if I disagree in the future and decide to put that in my reviews, that you don't complain about it.

You STILL bring me up in your reviews AND you comment on mine. So one, stop lying like you still aren't doing that and two, seems like a pretty big obsession you have with me.

I mean, I manage to ignore your stupid ideas but you're intent on feeding me down my throat all your stupidities even though we both know we don't believe in the same things. Oh, and another lie I just rememberd: you said you would like my reviews if they were worth it. Don't worry, I really don't want you to like them but there have been numerous reviews where we give the same rating and you didn't like them.But you haven't managed to miss one review from your buddy that you sent him to spam me

By the end of this conversation, I will delete all oh these comments because I'm tired of 100 comments on my review. Just don't bother to comment on it or I'll have to block you again. I know you tend to do that, that's why I'm telling you this.

And before you bother to lie you don't bring me up in your review, daspidaboy saw that, called you out on it too. So I know it's hard for you but just don't bother to lie again.

Well, I'll stick to my reviews. Just don't complain about it like you did before. And yeah, I'm willing to engage with your ideas despite the disagreement. You're the one who rejects disagreement. I would like your reviews if they were good, but I don't read your reviews every single time, so sorry if I missed out. That buddy is a good friend of mine, so I make sure to read what they post. You shouldn't delete these comments. Let them stand, especially if you think it looks bad for me.

I will complain because you're obsessed with me and you need to stop.

Thank you, though, from at least admitting you lied earlier when you said you didn't bring me up in your reviews anymore. We're making progress here.

Look, this is a public forum. The whole point is to give your opinion. And part of that is expecting a response to that opinion. I only criticize you for your ideas, if you don't want criticism, sorry but that comes with using this platform. I welcome you to proudly display your disagreements with me. Comment on my reviews, put it in your reviews, I don't care. That's probably our biggest disagreement.

Also, I don't think I said I didn't bring you up in my reviews anymore?

Yes, but when : 1. You comment on my reviews even when you don't offer one. 2. You bring me up in your reviews even though you lie you don't do that anymore 3. You're stalking me on other websites 4. You send other users when I block you... Sorry if this sounds fucking insane.

You did. You just did. You said you comment on my reviews because you don't bring me up in yours and if I block you here you'll do that again as if you've stopped ever doing that.

1. My review for this issue and all the rest will be on this website soon. 2. I never said I didn't. Find my comment saying I don't do that anymore. 3. I'm not stalking you. If you so concerned about that, maybe don't comment on the biggest comics news site. This is all public. And I haven't gone back to look at more of your disqus comments. I'm sure if I did, I'd see plenty of other stupid shit being said. 4. I didn't send anyone. If that were my intent, I could send a lot more than one person.

The idea was that you comment on my reviews because you don't bring me up in yours anymore, you just said that on an earlier comment.

Show me the comment, dude. I didn't say that. I think that's just something you implied in your head to something I actually said. Or maybe I'm wrong, and you can show me where I said that.

"The original reason you got angry with me was for bringing you up on my reviews when I disagreed, so I hope if I disagree in the future and decide to put that in my reviews" This sounds like you implied that you DIDN'T DO that, while you JUST DID, daspidaboy calling you out on it.

You know what, I'm really tired of doing this with you, I'm losing way too much time giving attention to someone that just wants to troll because we both know we won't ever come to an understanding. Say whatever you want to say, I'm tired of your obsessions.

That's not the implication. I'm just saying that if I do stick to putting it in my reviews instead of commenting on your reviews, that you don't get needlessly upset about that like you did the first time we interacted.

"In my view, I think the most American thing you can be is anti-American"-> And with that, Psycamorean gets permanently blocked. That's too much hate and too much bullshit for me. First guy I ever get blocked permanently. But this guy is legit crazy and I don't want to indulge that anymore without him getting psychiatric help.

Oh, and just so we don't have any discussions, anybody coming here and defending this hateful piece of shit gets blocked, too. I really don't want any more toxicity from that moron or his buddies. You can all go cry in your corner and hate the greatest country in the world as much as you want, but you won't do that in my comments anymore.

So much for being an individual. I noticed you didn't put the explanation for why I said that in your dumb quote. If you think this country is so great, then why do you hate its ideals? You're too afraid to actually refute anything I say, you just gesture awkwardly instead. Greatest country in the world? Bitch, we aren't even in the top 5. But we would be if America lived up to its ideals. That'll never happen because of people like you. Sad.

I let that comment for him to know why he's getting blocked, because he's a disgusting hater and traitor, now it's over for good.

good for you @Merlyn