Make the whole book a Joker book and I could be more inclined to buy a Tynion penned Batverse story but force feeding us Punchdrunk is a non starter for me.

Nah, the good thing is that it's more of a Gordon book. The Punchline story takes very few pages and even though I don't really care about the character at all, it's not that bad. Not good, but not bad either.

Being more of a Gordon book is definitely of more interest to me. The court of owls is also the last thing I enjoyed from Snyder. But Punchingbag holds zero interest for me. If the next issue looks ok I may bite the bullet and get into the series. I need my Batman fix since the 2 main books are dreadful right now.

Taken as an Elseworlds or What If story I think Taylor is off to an ok start. If its more lead up to Future State I will lose interest very quickly. I actually enjoy Kuberts art so I'm always happy to see it.

DC I do not think that he is giving a good pay, and I doubt that Zdarsky will accept, he really asked to write to Red Hood and is more of a Marvel writer I hope they offer Red Hood alone, I think he could do great things. But you are absolutely right Batman needs better writers, they are destroying one of the most interesting characters in DC

Quinn is a psycho and that's how she works best. Putting her in the batcave was the height of stupid writing. She's not DCs Deadpool she's an unstable psychiatrist that became enamoured with the Joker while treating him in Arkham. How does a control freak like Batman take a gamble on someone so mentally unstable? She doesn't work as a lead character.

@Mingthemerciless THANK YOU, this is exactly what I've been saying for the longest time. Batman disregarding her murderous past doesn't make sense to me at all, I don't know why their pushing so hard for her to become a anti-hero type character.

Harley Quinn's reinvention (re-investing?) is about $$$$. DC believes a psycho of the right gender=sales, as having "right" to be a psycho due to gender persecution. Their sales tell them a lot of public buys this. DC also increasingly supports Unsanity Collective msg, its OK to be somewhere between Sane and Insane, that is, "Unsane." And in an Unsane world, almost everything goes, reimagined as "freedom." This is why we have Batgirl pushing The Batman to go join with the Unsanity Collective.

The thing is Bats that Quinn wasn't persecuted into falling for the Joker but rather her damaged psyche allowed her to. But I agree with your point. Punchline on the other hand is merely an unstable groupie.

But Tynion had to inflict Ghostfarter on us as well as Clownshoes because he wants the IP incase some of the mud he flings at the wall happens to stick.

From what I understand Detective started to craterr during Tynions run and I expect a similar reaction early in his run on the main book especially with the gamble on retroactively leading to Future State line wide.

Ming - Good point: "Quinn wasn't persecuted." In Quinn origin story of 2013 blames her family (problem always family, always "someone else's fault," other than taking responsibility for your own actions). But yes, Intellectual Property argument (I bet DC would debate) and "expand the audience" mission going on. AT&T-WB/(DC)/ Disney (Marvel) debate is over what they can put on video/movies.While DC dotted-line to Warner since 1969, ATT 2018 purchase was game-changer.

Same issue with Marvel purchase by Disney in 2009. We now have movie coming up with Jane Foster as female "Thor." ATT/Disney, etc. want to reframe Comics and Comics Characters for video/movie marketplace "audience expansion." So ATT will also ignore Harley Quinn choosing to be a mass murderer. She has the right identity, and will get the right sales in the only market that they think matters in terms of $$$$. Not only just reinvention, but re-investing in comic character to get best ROI.

"Tynion wouldn't do that, he's known for his tight character work and iron-clad plotting." Hardy. Har. Har.

I don't know Tynion I was very disappointed with his Joker War, they left excellent elements for a Buum, you know Ric could have fought directly with Batman (I can imagine the drama) Tim being precarious with the metal instability of his mentor, Damian gone, Red Hood accepted with great tension between the bat (the garbage that Swan wrote does not count) instead it was a disaster.

You are wrong: it was $5. Otherwise you’re pretty much right.

$5 now, and unless we put our foot down with DC like when they pulled this 10 years ago, by the end of this year ALL their books will be $5. Extra pages or no extra pages.

"it seems as if they want to retire these two" - DC leadership and writing team would have done this 10+ years ago, if they cou.d. The problem has been $$$$. They can't do it until they can justify with sales figures. Part of Future State is to get sales to a point where they can do this and similar moves... and leave "retired" characters in archives where they can resurrect them for occasional "big events" or specials. But wishes are not $$$$, so they keep redefining around the edges for now.

This is the same thing that moneygrubbing (Censored) Dan DiDio pulled 10 years ago. Add a few pages to the top titles, raise the prices, in a few months make it the regular price for all. But then and they did that "Drawing the line at $2.99" thing, which I sometimes believe was the real plan all along. A scheme to bring in readers P.O.ed at Marvel and other publishers' rising prices. But then this is the first time DC is going up in prices first.

It gives me the impression that Tynion knows that he is not good at taking over Batman and this will explode soon, in return he is obsessed with bringing a thousand new villains at once and to make fun of them in new comics, the creation of new characters, as long as you give quality and this is something that is lacking in DC with the exception of Zdarsky's writing

What's really funny is that I remember several interview with Tynion expressing his love for the Gotham characters .And I felt part of that love in his Detective run. But now it seems his main concern is pushing aside all those characters and that whole gothic look of Gotham for all these punk characters that honestly don't fit are not very interesting in comparison to the characters that are being pushed aside.

*and are not. It seems to me he took a note from Bendis and he's creating all these characters in the hopes that he can get that sweet money that comes if they make appearances in a CW show or something like that. This has become a big problem in comics today, in my opinion, creators are more interested to "leave their mark" and eventually monetize that rather than create good stories.

I think a big part about the addition of new characters is that they will get returns anytime they are used in a story or collection. They profit off of new characters personally which would be good if the characters were compelling but so far Punchline, Ghost-Maker and Clown Hunter have all been... nothing. Snyder did the same thing, it's pretty disappointing.

Exactly @Hex and @Merlyn are not making interesting characters, it's all rushed and mediocre, I don't know what's happening but it seems that the writers are giving a blind blow or just doing a bad job copying a little here and there in a careless way.

When's the last time a newly created character actually resonated and became popular with Batman readers? Damien Wayne? And that's because Morrison used the past relationship of Batman and Talia to raise the stakes for Batman. Damien didn't catch on immediately but grew on the readers. Tynion is just switching on a sausage maker and not giving any of the sausages any genuine connection to Gotham.

I agree with hex as well...Snyders original characters were as poorly received as Tynion cardboard cut outs are here. They have no value and the readers see it.

Tynion is not the writer to handle DCs most lucrative title. DC surely can see this? First of all they must abandon the Future State foundation they're laying company wide. It's a bad idea and dull as heck.

With respect, while I agree with a lot of the commenters, I don't see this as a "Tynion problem," but a "DC Comics problem." DC has been told AT&T, and told its writers, find a new audience... OR ELSE. So all of them are looking to create new characters to "expand" the audience. They figure they HAVE you as a reader. You're not going anywhere. So logic, reason, loyalty - phaw! It is all and only about $$$.

For example, take a look at new "Harley Quinn" writer, Katana Collins, for "Batman White Knight" insanity. "Best-selling writer" Katana Collins is a romance story writer and "go-go dancer." I mean, seriously, do you think she cares Quinn was a psycho killer and The Batman's mission? Please. This is a great chance to make $$$ and get publicity. And good PR for DC... to "expand audience." That is the heart of Future State, no matter who the writer is.

You're pretty right on there. Tynion is trying to make a name for himself by creating all these crazy characters, most of which wear out their interest factor within 2 issues. You saw how they peddled Punchline expecting her to be the new Harley, but when that didn't work he decided to make an insane Anarky in Clownhunter, then There's the one he really hopes will get big, Ghost Maker, reminiscent of Azrael in the '90s. Just failed modern day copies.

Yep, originality is not Tynion's strong suit. He just made some punkish versions of other existing characters. And so far none of them have been a success.

Too bad it won't stop him from trying. :(

Speaking of Future State isn't Tim Foxs suit simply Jason Todd's batsuit from Battle for the Cowl minus the guns,

Looks like. On that continuing "storyline" for Jace Fox, i have given up on it, at least until they actually get some issues done and decide what they want to say. Most of it is Luke Fox as Batwing activity.

I've actually spent the money to buy this book and gave it a 9 because I loved Mora's art and how Tamaki is creating a whole political thriller with lots of action in intrigue. Nobody owes a review if they give this a rating, but you tanking it with a 5.0 when you haven't even bought it is pathetic and childish. Feel free to grow up if that's something that interests you.

So you comment just to say how much you love the Red Hood for absolutely no reason (I like him too, it has nothing to do with this, congrats you support other comics, have a cookie) and then say, "if this is good, I will buy it" but rate it low without reading it? What kind of logic is that? How will you know it's good without reading it and how would you know it's worth a five if you don't know it's good?

confess I didn't buy it , I'm waiting for it to be free, it shows that many idiots hurt them because they did not buy the comic and possibly you discovered its cover. Nobody has really verified that I buy anything and they are crying. It is a good message SUPPORT THE COMIC. But there are bitter idiots who do not even understand the positive.Even though I won't buy it if it's bad

so what's teh difference of you posting this with a 10? You clearly just wanted to post this to bring the rating down since you aren't a fan of the direction of the creative team or it isn't what you like.

Both Fenix and I were not impressed with Tamaks effort on Future State. So we re both looking at her run on tec with a dubious eye. Tamaki has a knack for starting great and quickly miring her stories in exposition and empty characterization along with plot problems. Her desire to go with a lead in to Future State with tec is not a promising start for me.

Granted the mediocre Tynion is doing the same in Batman so clearly DC editorial has made the call that Future State is the end game here. DC had a similar direction when it was steering the titles towards kingdom come. They dropped that idea and I'm hoping they do the same with Future State.

Its obviously too early after Future State to change the writing in these titles so quickly but if DC wants to stay that course I'm not interested and I'm betting most fans aren't either.

I think they are going to show how it is averted. Remember, black Adam was sent back to 2021 at the end of his backup so he will no doubt be working to change the future to save his wife and unborn child.

Easy, the purpose is that people read it and show it really that people bought it and it is demonstrated with a review than with a rating since you can do it without reading it. And I think the average would be just to get attention and it is not unfair, it is more the lowest rating someone in marketing would use to get attention.

@Mingthemerciless what you and this reviewer thought of Dark Detective is irrelevant to this discussion. Giving a 5 to a book you haven't read is idiotic, whether or not you've hated the author's past work

It's really funny how we fail wonderfully, confirming that the comics are not being bought. no one is making a real criticism of this comic, I just see people barking. Fenix has said that he will change this to raise or lower the grade, but xenophobic hypocritical peoples have no reading ability. like @BitchWitcher.

'NO, I have not bought it', followed up with, 'If this number is good enough, I'll buy it.' and finished off, 'THE ONLY WAY TO DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU REALLY LIKE THE CHARACTER OR THE BOOK IS TO BUY IT'. If you are supporting this backwards reasoning, I don't get it.

@fearUhavemeisenough Why put up a review if you are just going to 'read it later'? Why are you defending that? That's my biggest issue.

@fearUhavemeisenough you know there are plenty of people who buy books and don't leave reviews right? And your logic is basically supporting not buying books. You're supporting this person for leaving a review even when they haven't even read the book. The problem with doing this is it's unfair not only to the book, but also the creators who see a big fat 5. They see that number and get discouraged with how fans are taking the content. It also influences people to not buy the book.

It also discourages people who don't usually pick up books to not pick it up when they see bad reviews on a book. For example, if you go on steam or amazon and see review bombs or bad reviews, you would never pick up that product. Putting a review up without even reading is horrid, and Fenix is just hypocritical for doing so, and you are as well for defending this kind of behavior

@Ginnkgo I'm similarly baffled. Also, now I'm a "xenophobic hypocrite" for pointing out the senselessness. @fearUhavemeisenough where you're from is irrelevant, you and your friend make no sense. You also don't know where I'm from either, btw

I'm curious bwitch...how are our thoughts on how Tamaki handled Future State Dark Detective irrelevant when it appears she's starting her run ontec with a build up to Future State? If you're coming from the position that each issue should be viewed as it's own individual piece rather than a component of a larger vision then you're narrowing the discussion of the larger view of where the writer is going. That's your prerogative but the larger view of the direction chosen is not irrelevant at all.

Tom King may have had a good issue or two but overall his story was awful. So much so he was pulled prematurely from finishing his run at 100 issues. All Um saying is Tamaki dropped the ball on her future state title and she's running again with an FS centric build up. If a reader didnt like FS why would a run towards it be welcome by the same writer? Irrelevant?

@Mingthemerciless - WORD!!!

I don't know what it is about Taylor but I find his books awfully predictable and boring, I suppose his humor not connecting with me plays a part into it as well

I think the hero line is that Bruce would want dick to keep a low profile when he isn’t in costume as it goes with this situation. And, I fully expect that Alfred left the money to Dick because of what was going on in the Bat-Family the last year, (he updates the will each year he says), knowing that Dick would distribute it out to everyone when appropriate

Yeah, the humor is super cringe and he insists with it, he doesn't let up.

And that was another Alfred mistake, as if being Dick was fair enough to watch for others besides Damian and Barbara. PLEASE

I'll be honest, if they hadn't overrated this number so much, I would have completely passed it by. Although it was going to be great. But is not.

Bruce managed to make a fool of himself before while not in costume whenever the situation needed him to act. In a Clark Kent-stumbling-on-to-save-people kind of way. So the whole line would make sense if Bruce would be the type of hero who cares so much about his identity that he would turn a blind eye to injustice. But that's not who Bruce Wayne is, regardless of Taylor trying to send that message because he's obsessed with hating billionaires.

And as a Jason fan I know for a fact that Alfred would never leave him like that. He always understood Jason maybe more than anyone else, I don't buy the whole leaving everything to Dick and leaving Jason in the wind, even if Dick would take care of him. He wouldn't be that impersonal with someone who was like a son to him. There's a pattern here already, Taylor tries to diminish the well constructed Batfamily relationships between other characters just to make us feel like Nightwing in special.

The bat family has been a mess for years! Well constructed? Damian is a killer again, Batman almost beat Jason to death for what he did to the Penguin, They thought Tim Drake was dead and he came back and split! Even Barbara called them all out in that awful Castelucci Batman #50! In the last couple of weeks even - Damian is back with Talia and Jason looks like he killed a man! Give the book a chance! It’s one issue and you are writing it off as Tom Taylor destroying the Bat Family!

As an aside, we have no idea what he left the rest of the family either

The relationships are well constructed, yes. Damian was never a saint to begin with, honestly I think he's been too restrained for a long time, even though I liked most of what Tomasi's done with him and I didn't like the direction DC took him in these last years, it's really not a huge stretch for a kid who's been indoctrinated that the world is his to rule. Batman didn't beat Jason to death, yeah he gave him a rough fight, but it's not like that's the first time that happened.

I can see you're a Taylor fan because you're way too defensive for this book. I should say, I loved his Injustice, he basically got me back into comics with his Injustice but ever since then his writing has gotten worse and worse to the point I'm wondering why I'm even trying. Cringey humor, endless rants about billionaires and capitalism, doesn't give one shit about previous character relationships in a very Bendis-like kind of way, way too many cheesy moments.

He does write action pretty well, I'll give him that. Btw, are you the guy from Weird Science DC Comics?

So you think that since rebirth, the barn family has been strong? And I said ALMOST beat him to death... and now he’s killed a Joker and a guy last week! Batman won’t even work or talk with Jason because he said he’s a killer!

That was Bat Family obviously

He will work and talk with him in the next issues, he always does eventually, regardless of their ideological differences. He hates that Jason throws in his face all his shortcomings and stand for a lot of things Bruce despises but at the end of the day he's still his son, the son he failed and he'll always try to make up for it in the end.

I think that overall the Batfamily has some strong relationships forged in time. The relationship between Alfred and Jason is a solid one, it was before Rebirth and it's the same after. I think that Taylor dismissed that with this thing.

I know he will, but that’s the Bat Family right now. Since Tom King barely acknowledged them, Ric Grayson couldn’t remember them, etc, they ave been in disarray and hopefully, they come together in all the books. Maybe this is Alfred’s move to get Dock to bring them together like he does. I don’t know. Again, it’s one issue and we don’t know what the rest got... I asked Tom Taylor and we’ll see what he says

After 2 years of ric grayson, I was happy to get this issue as a reset of all that shit and now Dick can move forward

Wooow stop, did I kill a Joker in canon? does that influence Urban Legends? because I didn't see that mentioned. Can you be kind enough to explain please @WeirdScienceJim

Jokingly though, Dick deserves it because he is the best Robin and my favorite character in comics

sorry Jason kill Joker?

That I understand, especially of you're a huge Grayson fan, these last few years have been torture. Still, in the process of trying to uplift fans like you, Taylor diminished the relationship between Alfred and the Batfamily and he diminished Bruce's character. And I pretty much hated that. I didn't particularly enjoyed the rest of the issue either. You've rated this with 10, I can see you're a fan, cool. I'm not, I'm sorry to say. Other than the art I didn't enjoy anything out of it.

hahaha and I'll tell you something @WeirdScienceJim is valid, it's your tastes. What is not valid are the neurotics who complain and insult that you do not have the same tastes. There are many of those.

@Winterisnear I suspected the same, nobody has clarified if the Bats know that it was a blank shot, it was not even an actual assassination attempt. Jason didn't deserve such treatment, but it was a good drama without a doubt.

I think that it was supposed to be an actual assassination attempt but DC wouldn't want to lose one of the best villains they have and so Lobdell had to come with that crappy and convoluted "explanation" with rubber bullets or whatever. I think that at the time Jason was angru enough to kill Penguin then and there but the again, that's a DC problem, they don't have the guts to kill major villains.

We already know how DC takes care of its villains, that is why the Joker is untouchable. So they as he does not have the slightest idea of how to carry the continuity. That is why I am not going to give this book or another undeserving book a chance, with the obvious exception of what involves Jason Todd. It would take a good story for me to invest in that DC comic, they really disappointed me.

Jason didn't kill the Penguin - Batman called him a Killer in urban legends and i don't think he means from before since they worked a lot of that out since

Tom Taylor did say the whole family recieved the same amount at the will reading, including Julia. Who knows if that's actually true or if we will ever see that at all!

@Winterisnear they already dealt with what he did with the Penguin and Oswald didn't die. The reason I said it's the Joker is Batman let Jason back into Gotham (with rubber bulllet rule), but now won't work or talk to him because he is a "killer". The timeline is still a bit wonly but it seems like it can only be the Joker. Zdarsky's Urban Legends story feels like a side-sequal to Three Jokers the way Babs is talking to him too. Who knows with Infinite Frontier timeline stuff though

to find out, maybe Chip will clear it up in his penultimate issue, we'll have to wait. It's great that Chip asked the story of Hood, I think after Lost Days (I love it) and Three Jokers is the best thing that has been written about Red Hood, obviously it is not perfect but it is very good, there are many repetitions in the dynamics Buce and Jason, you know some Remake.

yep - I would like a lot of things cleared up going forward with an open timeline, there may be some changes

Woow friend, you got going the polemic, what an interesting post you do.

It wasn't on purpose, I'm just tired of people who praise everything Taylor writes when in reality he really isn't that good.

I feel the same about Tom, but the one with the last name King!

Kind of agree with you there. There are a lot of King books that people just love and I find them very, very underrated. Including some that are pretty much universally acclaimed, like Mr. Miracle, which I for one didn't find that good. Still, every once in a while he manages to surprise me so I have to give him some credit. But one thing I like about King and I don't about Taylor is that he seems to try to elevate comics to another level while Taylor just revels in cringy internet humor level.

IMO, King tries to elevate HIMSELF to another lever and at this point, his books are all following a tired formula of mysteries without clues that end in ambiguous endings. It's actually funny because I like Tom Taylor because he writes comics to write comics while guys like King (IMO again) end up being embarased to just write a fun comic. Like they want to prove they are above the medium when they are at fancy dinner parties

But he has a ton of fans!

Agree again, he is very infatuated with himself and has a pretentious style that most of the times, if you strip it of his tired artifices, the essence of his writing is pretty thin. And yes, the payoff for a lot of his mysteries is rarely worthy. He's trying to be the next Alan Moore and in his mind he probably he thinks he is but that's not going to happen. And yes, his fans are very aggressive and condescending because he makes them feel smart even though most of the times they're not lol.

But that's something I think King and Taylor fans have in common. If you look at the reviews here, there's a guy who thinks he "triggers the Lobdell fans" and there's another one that joins him in his disturbed fantasy. And it's not my first dance with Taylor fans, something I've noticed it happens with King fans too. After all, the two Toms are pretty good friends at least on social media, why should their fans not be annoyingly similar?

Present company excluded of course, it doesn't matter that you obviously loved this and I hated it from the bottom of my heart, I have no problem with someone having different tastes than mine, as long as he has his arguments and he's not being insufferable about it.

Lol, I just noticed I said King's books are underrated, obviously I meant overrated. :))

For me I can stomach Tatlor better than I can Kings self applauding style. He succeeded in keeping me from buying nearly 85 issues of my favourite character. That's some seriously bad storytelling. Taylor's at least has something of a feel for Dick Grayson.

I still maintain that despite their financial woes DC can get quality writers on the flagship books and get readers excited again. But you must start thinking vision and stories not gimmicks and constant resets.

Having said that I've read some previews of what Marvel is planning with Reborn 2 and they may be about to step on a rake themselves.

@merlyn LOL! erase that whole conversation then - We Agree!

gimmicks are the worst, but resets can work--- if you don't keep messing up and needing to reset over and over! DC keeps messing up, so I have my fingers crossed

@merlyn you are do right that King tries to be Alan Moore but comes out as Alan Less!

@Weird Science Jim - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah! MUCH less!

I was hoping that would get a chuckle!

@Weird Science Jim - more than just a chuckle, good sir. ...that earned a well deserved Belly Laugh!! 😂😂😂

Why are negative reviews disappearing from here? A few hours ago there were a lot more. I mean, do we really HAVE TO like Bendis' JL?

Never mind, I confused the reviews here with those from Nightwing lol. :))

Words cannot describe how much I despise that hideous untalented living tumor

Are DCs money woes worth keeping Bendis on the roster? His run in Superman was a dud. Jon Kent as a teenager isn't working. His villains were throw away. Now hes using JL to push his own property the ninth starter Naomi. Is DC editorial on extended leave?

Tupo: nonstarter Naomi

Zdarsky definitely needs to do more DC work, really hyped for his JL book now

Now compare Zdarskys effort here with what Tynion is doing on the main book. Tynion treads water at best. His own creations are bland and interchangeable. DC has to be realizing Batman needs a new writer at this point. Granted this is technically a red hood story but the quality difference is glaring.

The Grifter story is fun for me because of the characters connection to Inage comics. DC still trying to make Quinn an A lister is foolish. The character is a psycho gangster moll. Her own movie tanked. I didnt even bother with her entry.

The Outsiders was fun and I'd love to the team handled better because I've always enjoyed the concept.

I'm no fan of Zdarsky (incidentally I strongly dislike his DD run and people here are giving me a hard time for it lol) but when someone writes a good story I'm going to give him all the credit he deserves. Now I don't know what his pitch is for JL but sure, I'll give it a try. @Ming: I don't think Tynion gives a shit about his Batman book, I'm pretty sure of it by now. His Joker #1 was great, I think he's focused on that and on the Batman book he's just winging it.

@Ming: The bigger problem here is DC letting him do this to its best character. But that's probably because the company is in financial trouble and they can't afford a big name on the book as a writer.

@Merlyn: Wow, nearly everyone I spoke to has been liking DD. If you don't mind me asking, is there any particular reasons for your preference And yeah, it's obvious at this point the main Bat title has become a factory churning out new OC's every 2 issues. I think my dream creative team for Batman now would be Cates and Stegman. As long as we get the Cates who has been delivering top-tier stuff at Marvel and not him on Crossover

I just disagree with Zdarsky's views about society and he peppers those views throught the DD book. Also, he shits just too much on Matt for my taste.

*throughout

It's a very good observation on Tynion with Batman. It does look like hes not interested in the main book and more engaged with the Joker story. Its almost like he needed Joker War(which was terrible) to get him positioned for the solo book.

For me Tynion has never been good with Tec or Batman. Snyder started great and you can see where he disengaged from interest in Batman. Tynion has never hit the mark.

I understand your beef with Zdarsky but it's clear hes got a better handle on the human side of heroes and puts them back to a street level. That's where DD and Batman work best when the city is as much a character as its heroes and villains. That's the Batman I enjoy.

Agreed DCs money woes are an obstacle but there's good writers who aren't A list that would elevate Batman and Superman books much better than what Tynion King and Bendis have done. Let's see what Zdarsky does with JL.

I'm already tuned out on Tamaki after seeing her drop the ball on Dark Detective

And Ridley is not the answer. I just read and interview with him on an upcoming superman story hes doing and he just cant get go of the racial angles and activism. I don't want that garbage in titles I go to for escapism and good stories. I know you can insinuate some into a run but to constantly push that is just one note and crushingly boring.

Is asking for good storytelling too much?

@Mingthemerciless - After seeing that horrible self-insert fanfiction Tamaki is doing with Starfire, I can't support any of her books. Also, agreed on Ridley. Why do Hollywood people come into comics with the notion they know how the medium works? See J.J Abrams for example

JJ Abrams is proof of the Peter Principle. He glows onto already successful properties and ideas and writes fan fiction. Hes a company man.

Typo: gloms onto.

The interaction between batwing and the cops is typical of Ridleys racial skew in his writing. Batwings entire face is covered there's no indication hes black yet the cops are instantly brusque and suspicious of him even as the real criminal is present. Ridley masks this with the idea that it's because "capes" are under suspicion in Gotham but it's not very believable.

I have a question for Tynion. With Alfred (albeit temporarily) and Tynion positioning Lucius Fox as Batmans Q, why is Batman having to rough it for high tech gear? And setting the table for the magistrate un gotham to eventually lead to future state isn't a great idea given how poorly received it was.

This is typical Tynion lightweight story telling. He sets up Fox to be the new Alfres and caretaker of his fortune and Fox cant even maintain the gear he needs?

And giving Clownshoes and Quinn access to the batcave has to be one of the dumbest ideas in comic book history.

Quinn - Ghost-Maker is not the Clown Hunter character. They are two different characters. In an earlier issue, Ghost-Maker was going to kill Clown Hunter. Ghost-Maker is written as some vigilant rival of Bruce Wayne, who trained with him as a young man, in this storyline.

No I know ghost maker and Clownshoes are two different characters but Tynions creations are bland and interchangeable. I could have added Punchdrunk and it would work the same. Can we just get Alfred back and Tynion off the book?

Mingthemerciless, glad someone gets my humor. And bingo. Tynion’s characters are bland, interchangeable forgettable. I too await Alfred’s return. But the way Tyrion writes the book, I keep thinking Alfred is just in the kitchen, and he is not really dead. And who are they kidding. We all know he is coming back. Why bother “killing” him at all. Or I could be wrong.

I was just re-reading The Outsider story again the other night in Detective Comics #356 (October 1966). Alfred always comes back. I don't know how they will do it. But if they buried Alfred and had him come back as The Outsider, we know anything is possible. Heh and that was in "canon." Well, with "everything" being "canon" now, who knows what will happen?

Maybe you just never read it that way. They don't have to blatantly say it for it to still be true. That's exactly why it's so hard for people to come out and feel comfortable. Just because you see him in a certain way doesn't mean that's who he actually is.

The Earth 2 is this Alan as well! The whole ending of death metal and what Infinite Frontier is about is the timeline and multiverse opening to give us the “everything matters” DCU! That means characters who were dead could be back but also that characters that had different versions are brought together into a new “whole” version! It’s a new continuity and Jade being back is part of it too.

And new continuity, I mean a new version where everything is in play.

If this was only the Alan Scott you read for 80 years, he would be over a 100 years old (like Jonny Thunder in Doomsday Clock). This is the timeline correcting itself as it is opening up and combining continuities into one.

Excellent summation of the corner DC has put itself in. DCs greatest strength was always the quality of its writing. Right now Marvel wiping the floor with DC writing wise. I'm a Batman fan and honestly I've seen the standard drop dramatically since court of owls.

Say what you want about Morrison but hes having a ball with Hal Jordan's GL.

5G was a terrible idea and Future State was the lite version of it. FS was poorly received and it makes sense that it's too late to ignore it with titles so early out of the gate. But I'm fearing DC is not hearing the readers.

Death Metal went far too long and ended up a bloated mess. Building on a bloated mess is not good editorial decisions. I get it Snyder gave DC everything counts now but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

So as I understand it the alternate Alan Scott is now the only Alan Scott and his original relationships as canon Alan Scott are now beards? Right?

bloated? Take a look at King in Black!!!

the idea of saying that DC is worse than Marvel because of Death Metal and Future State was the same thing that DC fans said about All New All Different! Both have their issues and just wait, DC fans will be throwing shade at Heroes Reborn when that starts!

and @mingthemerciless it's the timeline opening up and making all the continuities one single one. I find this way a way better explanation than Iceman's

It goes back further than death metal. Snyder burned out on batman after court of owls and what did DC do? They gave him the batverse to oversee. Then Kungs run crashed with rooftops. I know many say it was issue 50 but fir me ge lost me with rooftops.

The difference with king in black is that it's written much better and easier to digest than death metal. DM went way too long and had too many tires ins. I got utterly sick of batman who laughs. Had Snyder stuck with Grim Knight or BWL and kept it Gothamcentric it may have worked better. But Snyder has to lay the table for the aborted 5G which then became Future State which leads us to this mess now.

For a start DC needs to dump Snyder Tynion and Bendis. Get more focused on flagship centric ideas for Batman Detective Supes Actionand Justice League. Bring Wonder Woman back from Snyders silly idea of her. Start thinking stories not constant reboots and bix checking.

I agree Narvel may be stepping on the same rake with heroes reborn V2

I think if they know how to handle a Damian heading towards being the head of the Devil and taking control of the league or starting the path to that destination it would be interesting. But it's DC and its cheap new talents.

And future State, it had some good parts and I drop everything, you don't really miss a thing.

Future didnt really interest a lot of DC readers and it's probably fair to say it was too late for DC to change this issue away from the FS storyline its hinting at. But from what I'm hearing Tynion has been given the Batverse to oversee and hes clearly not up to the task. Batman is my favorite character and I waited for Snyders final run then Kings abysmal run to end so that I could start enjoying the book again. DC gave it to Snyders protege who has not even a fraction of the talent to fix it

Remember what this all really about. The timeline has now opened up into 1 continuous timeline. "Everything Matters" and when Wonder Woman agreed to do it, the risk was that not everyone would make it, some characters would come back different but others would survive. Roy is back because of the timeline. He doesn't know why and we even have to find out what this Roy even will be our remember. Technically, this shows Batman coming back from the dead as the timeline corrects and opens.

And as for alan scott, that is showing that when the timeline opened into one, some characters with conflicting clversions get combined into one. Alan Scott was gay in the New 52 Earth 2 book and when the timeline combined, alan Scott realized he was gay now because of the combination of versions of himself. That's trying to show evrrything matters. Btw, i'm not sure that you know his son is gay as well.

I'll be honest I've never read Alan Scott but I think it's unfair if they make him look like a scammer on this issue. And as I underlined this part, it was something personal that reminded me of friends who were hurt by cheating.

I will not take the points that I drop because of this story. On the other hand, the appearance of Roy is still bad, I clarify I love that Roy is back I like the character, but without an explanation this is almost laughable, someone waved his magic wand and we have him back.

Thanks for your kind comments @Weird Science Jim , I didn't like how Alan was guided but I'll skip that part.

PS I don't know if your son is gay or not and it doesn't matter as long as the character has a good development. but I don't read them, I'm more of a Marvel fan, I really started reading DC after Arkham Knight (I loved Jason Todd's character) and although after Judd they haven't told him good stories, it's because of the only one I read DC, Batman I like or used to like beforeafter the declaration of Bat conCat everything became a filler with few interesting things.

sorry his son. pff

The thing with ROy was literally waving a magic wand. Wonder Woman opened up all the DC timelines and made them one at the end of Death metal. Don't get caught up that Roy was dead because almost everyone was dead! Remember, going back to the books after Death Metal doesn't mean Death Metal didn't happen. Death Metal was the end of continuity/timeline. Death Metals ending set up a whole new "everything matters" timeline where a lot of things were reset and combined.

The explanation of Roy being back is that the timeline has combined and reset. That's how everyone is back. It's really spelled out right before Roy with Oliver and Dinah - they are even researching what a changed timeline means. DC was not as clear as they should have been, but it is a soft continuity reboot where a lot of characters will be brought back (some might be gone) and they will have to figure out who they really are.

Since you haven't read DC, the Alan Scott thing makes more sense because in the New 52 (the most current continuity), He was a Gay man on Earth 2 without kids. This reset of the timeline combining all things combines that with his past pre-crisis and flashpoint stuff and to make a combined version. It may play like deciet and cheating, but it's the timeline trying to make a bunch of different characters work as one.

"Everything Matters" is the slogan so just making him a gay guy without kids leaves out stuff or just going back to pre-crisis stuff leaves out stuff. I mean, just having him back and not being 90 years old shows the combining of versions. Remember, Death Metal ended with a BOOM! timelines combined. This is Alan waking up one day and realizing that he was gay (New 52), but also had kids and wives, etc. It would be like waking up from years of amnesia of a bunch of past lives

again, I think it could have been spelled out better and even played better, but they wanted to keep the gay aspect from New 52, but also have the kids

i am glad you are giving DC I try! I went opposite way and started reading more marvel a bit ago!

Death metal I gave up on its second stage, whow how nice to explain all this madness to me. It is a headache for those of us who only follow only a few characters and the canon.

I stopped reading Marvel for a while and now with King in Black I resumed it and The Amazing Spaiderman reminds me why Marvel has been my favorite, even so I do not want any of the publishers to close, only that I feel a great drop in quality in numbers by DC for a little over a year.

i get it - i haven't been overly positive with DC for a bit either

Yeah it's great to have Batman back and in Gotham but you're far more forgiving of Tynions writing than I am. I really don't like DC steering us towards the poorly received Future State status quo. I remember when was steering everything towards kingdom come..that fizzled out and we have FS to look forward to?

Clownshoes and Quinn being trained as allies is a terrible idea as well. And apparently Lucius Fox as Q isn't working out great as Batman has to rough it for the gear he needs. Typical Tynion..poorly plotted and thought out. Can we just get Alfred back already, As usual the art was good.

Beating on white supremacists is racist? I feel like ur gonna have a tough time fighting for that one chief. Also, the story mostly focuses on family anyway, so I really have no idea what you mean, sir.

Ridleys schtick is pretty much back revenge fantasies. If you canr see the racist complexion of his one note writing you have my sympathy. As for batman black white I've been enjoying it more than the main books. With a few duds it's mostly enjoyable.when I saw Ridley was contributing to this issue I knew what I'd be getting and simply chose to put it in the dud of this issue category. Always enjoy Kelley Jones on batman though.

omg, why do you think racism is owned only by people with African genes? Racism can be suffered by anyone and when you hit a target just because of their ethnicity, it is racism.

Uhhh sure, I know that. Everyone does. But advocating for any kind of supremacy is wrong, and this is no exception. Taking down ppl like that shouldn't be controversial.

Once this is cleared up I'm not sure if the first story is racist or not, but it could be interpreted as promoting revenge towards a bigoted (dumb) type of people and I think it fuels the fire of hatred and I don't believe that. It is what you need right now with the situation that is happening in the United States, a terrible situation that should never have happened. Think about this, if we translated it backwards, a white Batman beating up a group of bigoted blacks, it wouldn't be racist.

That's exactly the point. Any portrayal of one race being above another is wrong. But not where Ridleys writing is concerned. He love provoking racial tensions with his revenge fantasies. Hes a lazy writer and very one note.

I'm not really sure how "taking down white supremacists" is provoking racial tensions, considering people like this do exist. While they may not be extremely abundant, the events at the Capitol building (where actual confederate and white power flags were flown) should tell you otherwise. And these people aren't portrayed as "dumb" (one is even mentioned as military) just ignorant, which again, is not unbelievable given the current climate.

Finally, we have been shown scenes of Batman beating on minorities in gangs and so forth, which generally garner little to no attention. (I'm thinking of certain scenes from 80s Batman comics) So I'm not entirely sure to take away from this conversation other than you likely skimmed through the story, saw a mention of race and got upset, and then proceeded to make excuses about it.

By your logic it's okay when: Batman (Bruce Wayne) beats up black drug dealers like Deshawn (Batman #664) and Jefferson Skeevers (Batman #407) But it's "provoking racial tensions" when: Batman (Jace Fox) beats up white supremacist drugs dealers like the Igloo Bois in this issue. If that's what you're saying I'm sorry, but I think you're racist.

TheHyruleElf terrible thing about the capitol, personally I do not see badly the first chapter, but there are extremely sensitive people and others being so extreme in another and I think that due to the situation that is unfortunately happening, perhaps they should be careful regarding these issues During a demonstration against racism, many people became aggressive with the motorists and caused deaths and injuries for taking things to the extreme,

it was not like the madmen in the capitol, a little care should be taken not to fall into extremes.

TheHyruleElf At the moment I do not think that anyone dares to put a group of blacks being beaten and it would feed hatred in a difficult moment.

In the end it is my way of thinking of a person who sees their whole situation from the outside and I see how in both groups people shout offenses or say racism, xenophobia etc. It is not the same today as at the time those comics were written and if there was some racism at that time in many movies when the bad guys were Russians or black people. Now they are replaced by Russians or Mexicans and it is still Xenophobia and racism but now directed at another group.

If we get so strict on sensitivities, there will always be racism and xenophobia in some way.

Lol...the Capitol building? We saw blm and antifa destroy lives and livelihoods for months in the name of back lives matter and you're giving me a few hours of hyped up kooks in DC as the problem? I said Ridley is lazy and one he ran straight to beating on white supremacists by his fake black batman. All to stoke division and feed racial animus.

And lo and behold you call me a racist...lol

Ridley is the racist. You need to digest that fact. All he offers is hate. I've seen batman beat up Russians Asians black criminals Latin criminals and a whole lot of white ones too.

His entire rogues gallery is white.

@TheHyruleElf: For me it's pretty simple: if the situation was reversed (aka portraying black people like whites are portrayed here), this would be considered controversial. But since these are white people, that's ok. You can't have it both ways, I'm sorry.

Minus bane who is Latin.

And killer croc is black. Batman goes where the crime is. No race baiting like Ridleys one note writing.

And if you want to quibble ras al ghul is likely middle eastern. Now there was a period during the war that batman was used as propaganda. But he began as simply a crime fighter against almost exclusively white criminals. Ridley runs straight to the racial animus well as he always does.

And to be clear I'm saying Ridleys writung is lazy one note and tailored to stoke racial animus. He ran straight to the black hero vs white supremacists well. A hero that by the way never earned the batman title and left batman's three sons out of contention. My problem isn't seeing white supremacists being beat up. It's the obvious agenda and race baiting of Ridleys.

"you're giving me a few hours of hyped up kooks in DC as the problem?" I'm not going to get into that because I'm sure you know the difference between damage on insured building vs. attacking public officials in the nation's capitol over an election. If you can't see the difference, there's no helping quite frankly. And I'm still unclear on why you take such issue with the notion of white supremacists being villains, I really don't understand that. Or how that "stokes any racial animus."

White supremacists are bad in any context and your justifications are not helping in the slightest. It almost sounds like you're trying to defend them, but please prove me wrong.

And @Merlyn the point I'm making isn't a black vs. white supremacists thing, but rather Batman's approach to crime. In this story, Batman is taking them out because they kidnapped a cop and are gun traffickers. But somehow it's the fact that they're "white supremacists" that makes you angry. Again, I'm not really sure why that would be the case. I assume YOU are not a white supremacist, and I don't recall Jace Fox saying any diatribe about "all whites being racist" or some other nonsense.

@Merlyn I believe I mentioned earlier that the story mostly focused on the family (Jace and Tiff) and their relation to Batman, but it seems that you were somehow most upset over them being racist. Again, they're criminals so I'm not sure why that would take precedence, but I'll let you explain yourself. Or not. If you thought the story was boring or uninteresting, that's quite all right. But this weird fixation on a minor point seems odd to be upset about.

@Merlyn Again, I assume your not a white nationalist, so for the life of me I don't understand why that would rankle you so much.

Were you as upset when abortion activists stormed the capital and threatened any senator that dared to confirm Cavanaugh? Spare me the piety.

@TheHyruleElf: Stop lying, please. There were not just "damages on insured buildings", there were a lot of deaths and injured people. In fact there was a lot more loss of life in the BLM riots than on the Capitol storming. On 6 January 5 people died, in the BLM riots, the counting stopped at 19 deaths, for obvious reasons. Those so-called "peaceful protests" were anything but, the real number of dead people is probably much higher.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to defend the rioters at the Capitol, there is no excuse for those actions, whenever there is loss of life that's when it's going too far in my book. But comparing the two events like one was something horrible and the other was just a walk in the park is very disingenous on your part. So, you know, before you start throwing insults at me because I don't agree with your racial theories, maybe stop lying for a second.

You're not paying attention are you? Ridley uses the straw man to gin up racial animus. Its easy to loathe white supremacists and it's easy to use them for his purposes. And what's his purpose? Good story telling? No..racial tension is what hes looking to foment.

And regarding the racism thing, again, I don't have a problem whatsoever shaming white people being racist, but why is it ALWAYS the whites being portrayed as such, but never, ever the other way around? Why is one thing super cool and acceptable, while the other is so problematic that no one dares portraying black people like that? That's racist, and you know it.

Oh and there's the feeble excuse "insured buildung" regurgitated like a good little useful idiot. It doesn't matter how much damage blm and antifa inflict on property and people's lives..its insured. Dozens were killed during BLM's jacobin free for all. That's ok..insured.

Ok first of all, I wasn't "throwing insults" I was just asking why you seem to fixate on such a minor point, assuming you're not a white nationalist. If you're upset by the comparison, that's fine, but it's hardly lying. And yes, ppl were killed. Police and protestors (some who were shot by civilians like the Rittenhouse boy) but again I raised the point of the capitol riots as clear cut example of current day white extremism when felix had raised another point.

Were you upset when public officials were threatened in the Capitol by lefty activists during the confirmation hearings?

Oh wait...they were unsured?

And I'm not sure what "racial theories," you think I support, or even what that means if I'm being honest, but I know that I wouldn't be upset by a minor point of white supremacists in an 8 page Batman comic. No, it's not a walk in the part, but there is certainly a greater emphasis on the Capitol considering what might have happened if the terrorists had been successful.

Rittenhouse was defending himself from armed antifa that chased him down. Do your own eyes lie to you?

I'm not saying the lives lost last summer are insignificant, but it's certainly a little more frightening when the entire government is at risk over a democratic election. That's really all I have to say, as well as my points about the actual comic we've been discussing. Also, we're about 30 comments deep and I'm not a "keyboard warrior," so I'll not be debating this well into the morning if you understand my meaning.

And I've given you examples of black extremism but you don't seem to care about it very much, if anything you're trying to suggest the deaths came from right-wing extremists. Your bias is showing.

One more point: the "peaceful protests" that you mock were often instigated by police and I should know. I watched a 7-hour Livestream of my local Boston news channel and while the marches were peaceful for nearly 3/4 of that time it was when the police showed up that things really escalated through the use of tear gas and other tools. Obviously, that doesn't excuse rioters, nor the actions of murder, but when a body escalates things it always gets worse. Always. That's my take.

John Sullivan antifa and blm operative raided the capitol on Jan 6 and even filmed Ashli Babbitt mortally wounded. Hes on video gleefully enjoying his presence in the capitol and the damage being done. Good luck portraying him as a white nationalist.

Well your take is pretty bad given that the mob attacked the police, the same mob who called for the abolition of police and prisons.

"Rittenhouse was defending himself from armed antifa that chased him down. Do your own eyes lie to you?" And this justifies murder? I presume you felt the same outrage over the many hate crimes committed towards Asians in the past year.

The government was never at risk. Stop insulting everyone's intelligence.

"And I've given you examples of black extremism but you don't seem to care about it very much, if anything you're trying to suggest the deaths came from right-wing extremists." - "But advocating for any kind of supremacy is wrong, and this is no exception." My own words. And yes, some of the deaths did come from extremists as I mentioned. As well as Antifa antagonizers. I don't advocate for any violence, but there shouldn't be a case for "which supremacy is better."

Also, a lot of Antifa antagonizers (which you mention as causing trouble) are white, yet you refer to it as "black extremism" which I find to be very questionable. And I don't recall them arguing for "racial purity" or any such nonsense. That doesn't make it better, but they're hardly a 1:1 comparison. Once more, if you cannot see some distinction I'm afraid I don't know what else to say.

Yeah..its ok it's all insured (sorry about the dozens killed and wounded)...but the government and free elections were in danger and ours white nationalism fault..lol

"The government was never at risk. Stop insulting everyone's intelligence." Well that says quite a lot. It's not as though they had to evacuate all the members congress as they were performing their duties. It's not as they some of them were carrying weaponry and bombs. But I suppose, I'm embarrassing myself for worrying about a little thing like safety.

Well I guess I am, as I'm continuing this conversation with you Ming.

Dude, if you're going to pin those deaths on "Antifa antagonizers", it's getting really hard for me to take you seriously. Seriously. And yes, you're right, there shouldn't be a case for "which supremacy is better", that was my whole point. But why is it everyone's cool with the depiction of white people like this, yet the opposite is racist? Why is it okay to portrait one race in bad taste, but at another it's "problematic"? That's my whole complaint.

I think I've read tens of comics recently of white people being portrayed this way, but always JUST white people. You can't tell me with a serious face that it's just coincidence and not pure racism.

Terrorists were successful..lol listen to yourself. Months and months if blm and antifa terrorism on entire cities and you brush it off with..its ok its insured but the government was in mortal peril. By who? A guy in a medicine man headdress and facepaint?

"Dude, if you're going to pin those deaths on "Antifa antagonizers", it's getting really hard for me to take you seriously." Oh, right, I guess I was supposed to those evil nasty radical black monkeys who ruined the cities and killed people, right? And my complaint from the start was why would you be upset over a portrayal of supremacists in a bad light. Let me ask you this: If they were Japanese extremists, would you be just as upset as you are right now?

The fact that you've defended this for this long leads me to believe otherwise, but please prove me wrong.

Instead of wanting to call me a racist so bad why don't you read what's in front of you? I already said no one cares that white supremacists got beat up in the story. Its Ridleys cleae and transparent agenda that is vulgar and offensive.

Don't pretend to be clever with me champ. My family experienced first hand the butchery of the nazis and the communists.

And I continued to ask what agenda is a part of fighting against supremacists, and how it could possibly be "vulgar and offensive." Like, supremacy is bad in any form so I don't understand how it's an agenda. Is it just because they're white and Batman is black? Really? That's a weak justification and I hope you understand that.

But I get the feeling you've made up your mind already, and the fact that you consider Rittenhouse so defensive hero shows I want little to do with that ideology.

Billions of dollars in damage. Lives destroyed. Dozens killed. Hundreds injured in blm and antifa riots that took place over months but the guy in the horned headdress and face paint nearly brought down the government..lol.

So this will be my last little comment, unless you have something else witty to say Ming.

You haven't answered whether you were upset when lefties stormed the capital and threatened senators if they confirmed kacanaugh

I ll spell it out for you. Beating up skinheads is not Ridleys agenda. Gunning up racial animus is. He merely used the boogie man dupes like you react to.

Of course I was, who wouldn't be. As I've said a million times, any extremism is bad, left or right. But that doesn't somehow justify the events of Jan. 6 does it? Again, if you need to justify the actions of one group by saying, "well, the other group does it too!" then not only are you missing the point, but it's frankly disturbing.

So if you can't understand that, let's not continue this charade any further.

I think I've made my point clear 4 times now and you completely choose to ignore my point of view while trying to imply that I'm racist (I didn't use the word "monkey" at any point, but you've done it). Given that you don't seem to give a crap about any of my comments and just cherry-pick parts of them in order to try to portray me as you want me to be, I don't see why I should continue this conversation.

No justification for either attack on the capital but you seem to call only one group terrorists for doing exactly what another had already done with almost no consequences.

Again spare me your piety..you're not very convincing.

No one justifies the attack on jan 6 stop putting words in my mouth. Its was dangerous and unlawful.

What's more troubling is your defense of the terrorism on entire cities by blm and antifa. You actually repeated the "its insured"absurdity mouthed by blm mouthpieces. That speaks volumes about how easily manipulated the dim witted can be.

Anyway... batman black and white is currently the best of DCs batman output right even with duds like this one by Ridley.

Merlyn..apologies for belaboring this board but he calls everyone a racist almost by reflex.

There's a quote that applies to what Ridley does..the devil doesn't appear to you in horns and a cape but rather as everything you wish for. There's a better version of that but I think it's clear.

And this is what happens when a comic is politicized that should be fun, help you forget the bad thing that is happening and now it can not even fulfill that independent function of the bitter immature who do not tolerate difference of tastes.

There was nothing racist about beating up racists who killed a cop. Nothing

There is something racist when your black batman is doing the beating up of said racists. Ridley is a race baiter and he used the easiest go to to disguise his racial agenda...white supremacists. Do you think Ridley would have his black batman beat up some antifa or blm goons burning down someone's home or destroying their livelihood? I've seen Bruce Wayne come to the aid of people like that.

Like I said the devil doesn't appear in horns and a cape...he appears as everything that appeals to you.

Look at Ridleys body of work and tell me he doesn't have a racial agenda. Good luck.

You're looking for something to get upset about. All I see is Batman fighting criminals. Them being racists doesn't change that. And it isnt racist either. He isnt beating them because they are white, hes beating them up because they are criminals.

That isnt a racial agenda, that's Batmans doing exactly what he's supposed to do.

Of course hes beating them because they're white. It's a revenge fantasy for Ridley who is himself a racially charged writer.

When Ridleys batman takes on the crips (which is also what batman is supposed to do) let me know.

You're being duped and manipulated by Ridley. He didn't have to put his batman in peril by white supremacists. They could have been drug cartel or gang members in which killing a cop is much more frequent and realistic. He went straight to the racist well instead.

No he isnt beating them because they are white lol. Did you even read this? Its clearly explained they have kidnapped/killed a cop and thats why he's there. You talk about seeing the "devil" in front of you but you are choosing to deny the reality the book presents and formulate your own. I've read other works by John ridley and one of those was other history #1. In which a black man develops a prejudice against another black man.

Clearly he is capable of more nuance than he is allowed. And a writer depicting batman beating on crips WOULDNT be racist either. You sound like the folks who said Hawkeye was racist in Endgame, I've defended that scene too.

I'm not so sensitive to be offended by Hawkeye kicking yakuza ass in Japan. But Ridley has a racial bent to his writing and its not simply plot device and storytelling. I believe hes a race baiter.

Ridley didn't have to go to racist well but he did and its not coincidence.

This piece is a revenge fantasy by Ridley. I believe it's obvious given context with his other work. Its time for guys like Ridley to be called to the mat. On a purely aesthetic note his writing bores me. Hes one note and lazy. Similar to Tom King.

Writing black characters isn't a racial bend though. And depicting real life racism isn't a racial bend either. There's no revenge to he had for this to be something like that.

Revenge for what? He's fighting criminals. There is ZERO wrong with that. Just because they are criminals similar to ones we'd encounter on occasion in modern times doesn't change that.. . I dont see the disconnect, it seems to he a personal issue with Ridley going back to something specific. But there's no need to fit it in here.

If he wants to write racism being defeated, let him! Its exactly the type of relevant story that resonates and there's nothing wrong with that. I dont see an issue.

@Ming: Let it go, it's not like you're going to change his mind, he clearly doesn't care to see beyond the usual stereotypes. And I really don't want this to go to 100 comments. :))

@Merlyn, its not a stereotype. That implies most white people are depicted like this. They are not. But if you wish to end the discussion, very well.

If you would've even read the comments I've made above you would know what my complaint was. But you didn't so yeah, there's no need for further discussion.

@Merlyn, I believe we see John Ridley writing about are criminals that he imagines most. Bob Kahan and Milton Finger's core (not exclusive) vision of "the criminal" were mobsters of their day. because that was threat in their city. They were, of course, a stereotype too. But with more pages of writing, antagonist (even mobster) had more character development. Not getting those pages from Ridley. Thus less character development. Lack of writing/plot limits what we see beyond snippet of world view

@Merlyn, I have read John Ridley's Batman work only. To me, the question is can he really do anatagonist character development, as I also question can he really write a solid story with beginning, middle, end - beyond the serial style writing or reimagining others' "history"?

Why do you even read comics? If tastes are diverse then allow for it.What DC intended was to entertain with something bold fresh and different, and they did. Who they disappoint are readers who aren’t. I give you a 1.0 too

Exactly, I did not like it, however who does it is good because they make the purchase and avoid the disappearance of DCcomics, however for my taste I feel that the quality of DC has been declining for a year in a terrible way.

In the end, the purchase is what counts, not what we think, it is a business so the numbers will really speak for the fans, you like to buy it, you don't like to put it aside. It is that simple to show what art, character or number we support.

And I think I'm not trying to stop anyone from buying it, I'm not getting into other people's reviews like a bitter blaze just because they like me, that's allowing, respecting and having tolerance for diversity. And I give a -100 to the intolerant who do not support the diversity of opinion due to their lack of maturity. Diversity is good.

I’m just giving you some ‘diversity of opinion’ Seems you didn’t like that with the novel you wrote in response. Don’t care about the rest of DCs line or whatever, so just talk about the book. It was great and you can’t see it. Cool.

Which is great and I fully support your opinion of diversity, my native language is not English, maybe something can be misinterpreted. But of course I support diversity and intolerant people who want to control a positive or negative vote make me sick. If you like that is good and if you don't like it too.

Pourquoi y a-t-il tant de pleurer bébé sur? boo boo vous n'avez pas aimé le livre, tolerance is called and they end up being intolerant people who rage with stupid things like a comic. And this thing is not bad horrible.

J'me demande la même chose, ils sont traumatisés si quelqu'un dit que je n'aime pas ça, ils ont besoin comme si tu devais changer d'avis et face à l'agression, personne n'écoute ne peut avoir des bases solides ou pas, ils faire et infraction, couper la communication que pourrait-il y avoir C'est comme je demande explication par un 10

Consultez vos messages privés, pour convenir des traductions je vous laisse toutes mes données.

Je crois aussi que nos attentes ont augmenté depuis la création de Batman en 1939. Je crois que Batman a été une réponse émotionnelle au fléau du crime, qui a toujours semblé être hors de portée de la loi, et des victimes innocentes. C’est ce noyau qui a été le plus perdu.

Le Batman a été une réaction pour inspirer ceux qui se sentent persécutés par les temps sans loi, et le manque de protection contre la société partagée. C’est le cœur de l’histoire, y compris les super-vilains. C’étaient des méchants qui attaquaient les vulnérables, pas seulement une guerre privée avec des héros. Pas l’invasion extraterrestre de l’espace, pas Darkseid, pas de réalités multiples.

Can you explain the reason?

Could it? yes, I want? It depends on what you answer me. Did you buy the book? What did you like with fundamentals?

sorry fingers mistake. What did you like? explain with fundamentals

oh! I forget it, if you didn't buy it, why didn't you?

Wow man, calm down a bit. I really just wanna know what is annoying you, in general, with DC. Not about this book necessarily. Take care!

I think DC editorial have really lost the plot and the quality of writing there has plummeted. I'm a huge batman fan and all I'm buying right now is black and white and manbat. Tynion on the main title is stiff and unimaginative. Tamaki is about to take on Detective and she dropped the ball on dark Detective.

Editorial tried to save 5G with Future State and it was mostly a dud. Swamp thing the only stand out quality wise.

Dark metal went way too many issues and tie ins. It was a bloated mess.

I think DC needs to lose Snyder King Tynion and Bendis and really get the flagship title back on track.

This title black and white gives us glimpses of the real potential for good writing on batman. The art is not an issue. Hiw many times have you read "kings writing was awful but the art was great"? Same is said with Tynion. Joker War was a rehash of city of bane (which had just happened no less) and city was a rehash of the far superior knightfall.

That's my perspective on the current issues with DC and I think I'm not alone on that.

@ Pvictor26 Let me understand this, you can freely ask and I can't do it because you are offended? Friend you have a very susceptible and exaggerated point of view of life, apart from that I am not vs DC, doing it is wanting to convince people not to buy it, and your limited understanding cannot see that I am IN FAVOR OF MY ECONOMY, NOT VS DC. And I will summarize the answer, they are expensive books and mostly low quality, this book at 4.94 euros is not worth it for my pocket.

@Mingthemerciless I am more careful in my expenses due to this crisis. At the moment my pocket in comics is in King in Black not the whole event, but the main one and Venom along with The Amazing Spiderman. Calvari was not a bad story and the art was good but 4.94 euros is not worth the expense, The story of the king was acceptable, but I felt it out of place, the others I did not like art or history.

@Mingthemerciless taking all of DC, I feel like they are getting lost in fillers and good ideas that do not culminate, Tynion is doing a lot of book that feels empty or filler, he is obsessed with bringing out new characters, that's good the problem is that they are not very interesting , Joker War could be an incredible event, a dark Nightwing, a fight with Batman would have been beautiful if they gave the right drama. But it was horrible, a end quick and silly

@Mingthemerciless Tom King does not know how to use flashback, few writers do and King abuses it a lot in Bat / Cat. In Bane City, after discovering Bane's body leaves holes, the batclan appearing and disappearing senseless. And he's not a bad writer if he just stopped doing filler numbers.

Snyder I was so disappointed in Dark Metal, it was just too much to the point that I lost interest when they extended it instead of Doomday clock to give this scramble of FS and IF, where anything goes.

Desde la adquisición de DC por parte de AtT, parecen desesperados por vender y supervisar la calidad, Dan Dido cometió muchos errores, pero a Jim Lee no le fue mejor junto con las nuevas desaceleraciones que reemplazaron a las otras por ser baratas. Y ya sabes, la fórmula fue retirar la serie normal y solo vender sus nuevos personajes, de esta manera solo podrás comprar sus nuevos personajes diluidos con adorados personajes de DC como Batman, Super y WW.

I'm sorry if I have flaws in my writing, my English is not very good.

Yeah, i really don't know if it was your English... But someone misunderstood the other hehe. I was asking for that I can take care of my pocket too... Because I don't like the metal saga either and absolutely would like do know people's opinions about the DC situation after that. Anyways, you answered the other guy. I don't have a strange point of view about life dude hahaha You don't even know me... We just misunderstood each other. Be Safe!

@ Pvictor26 you know what's up? The problem is that there is a lot of intolerance towards "no", I have seen people offending only because you give a bad rating or you do not like it, and the worst thing is that then it is the harassment of a reader.

@ Pvictor26, as you say, I don't know you, that's why I asked you the questions, if you didn't like it or you didn't buy it, well I would answer you, if on the contrary you bought it and you liked it, giving me your well-founded positive points, maybe I could see this with different eyes comic and that's the way someone can be pleasantly read.

I can see you are a big Shingeki fan. Check my video on youtube, please? I think you'll like it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfnptFyym1k&feature=youtu.be

Books like this are the reason I may soon be joining you.