could you elaborate further on how Moira was unlikeable and why you dont like the new direction?

I guess by direction I mean Moria X's sudden heel turn at the end of Inferno. More specifically, X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine where the X-office doubled down. I stop reading about her after that. I know she plays a big part in AXE: Jusgement

I preferred her complexity in house of x and the mystery behind all her lives. She was obviously planning something big but that plan never came about once Hickman left.

In this spidey, she just seemed to one note villian for me. It's okay if you disagree. Just my thoughts on the whole matter

*You're, its and awful. I'll take King more seriously than a review riddled (hah) with spelling mistakes. And I don't even like King. When 9/10 people think something is good and YOU'RE the odd one out, there might be something wrong with your perspective.

9/10 people have never read another Batman book. It was nicely drawn, but if you have to try and say the riddler planned the killing joke plot, but it was beneath him to go through with it. It's a Terrible book, also do you think I care about grammar or spelling in a 1/10 review? I'm not proof reading that lol. That would mean I spent more time plotting this review. then Tom king did writing it. Also any Batman book Batman kills someone in is an automatic 3/10 or lower

Does that mean The Killing Joke by Moore gets an automatic 3/10 or lower? Because there are multiple ways the ending can be interpreted......

Maybe you should proof read your own work. People would take you more seriously if you have a real point but it gives off the air of not having a clear understanding of your own words let alone more complex dialogue and structure like that of King's here. It's also a throwaway line that you are getting really worked up over. How many books have done something like that where it literally meant nothing or the person was straight up lying because... DUH?!

Didn't you like Scott Snyder's Batman?

You guys are wasting your time. There are just some people on this site that will proclaim that King is the worst writer to ever dare writing, without anything close to a substantive reasoning for it. They're all still mad over that run from 2016. Why? I couldn't tell you. They're never going to meet you halfway, no matter how much you try to rationalize the objective issues with their perspective. His reasoning falls apart immediately after the sentence it was written into.

I actually enjoyed kings run up untill the knightmare arc, and it was really bad after that. His first 5 arcs are quite good, and since the killing joke is canon...... no you can only take the ending one way 🤷‍♂️ And if you have to try and make other stories look bad, and then also complete reinvent a character for your story to be good..... how good of a writer are you? I'd say a really bad one who doesn't know how to use 80 years of history to your advantage.

How is Tom King trying to make other stories look bad? Also, reinvention happens all the time. Your favorite version of Batman is no doubt a reinvention of the character. This story is probably not in continuity (like that matters at DC anyway), and in that context, your complaints make even less sense.

By saying the Barbara Gordon plot from the killing joke, was all the riddlers plan. You are undercutting one of the best Batman stories. To try and make your story look better. How is that hard to understand?

And I lien almost all Batman, where it be morrison's Batman, miller's batman, Snyder's Batman, tynion's Batman, burbaker, O'Neil, Adams, even early tom kings Batman before thhe wedding, loeb, Cooke, Wagner, Dixon. All wrote great Batman stories without the need to try and do what king did in this book. I respect your opinion that you liked this book thag crapped all over the killing joke. I just found it absolutely aweful and disrespectful to the history of Batman 🤷‍♂️

You might want to go read The Killing Joke again. Just because elements of the story ended up "in continuity" doesn't matter because the ending is clearly ambiguous. Saying the ending of the story can only be interpreted one way is just as stupid as saying King ruined The Killing Joke by writing an homage to it 30+ years later. Moore's story still exists, unchanged, exactly as it always has.

Your history of the Batman really should expand then if that's all the writers you can come up with. You think Moore didn't take from other Batman writers? It just shows that you have only a surface level understanding of the Batman character & those who write for him & the reasons they put homages, references, straight up plot elements from the past or retcons. Moore retconned the Joker origin. Just because it was almost universally praised doesn't mean that he didn't expand on others' work.

O'Neil made Batman a drug addict, Snyder had him kill the Joker, Miller had Robin eat rats, Morrison had him travel through time then Snyder piggy backed off of that entire story to create the Batman Who Laughs. Cooke changed the psychology of Batman from what most people understood, dividing it into two personas, something Morrison clearly drew inspiration from. These all work together to change things little by little.

Giving this a 1 is just disrespectful. Even if you don't like King, or the writing of this book because you are biased doesn't mean that Mitch Gerads did NOTHING to elevate this book because it is beautiful. At least consider that. Comics are more than just the writing or the art.

Kings writing was so bad in this book to me it disrespected gerads art. The art is great but the story is just so aweful to me. The art cannot salvage the rest of it. Hey I'm glad you think this absolute crap show was the greatest Batman's Tory of all time. You like poorly written stories with characters acting out of character. That's fine lol I don't And you wanted me to list every Batman writer in history 🤣.... I figured the 12 off of the top of my head was a good start lol.

Also I think you need to re read the killing joke..... the joker even says if he was to have an origin, he'd prefer to to be multiple choice. So you don't even know if anything he said was true. King shows this as the new definitive backstory of the riddler, and a riddler who doesn't act like the riddler was dumb 🤷‍♂️

And I have said multiple times I enjoyed the first few arcs of kings Batman but after knightmares he just lost the ability to write a good or even half ok Batman story 🤷‍♂️

I meant that you only took the most popular on any 'IGN's best Batman writers' list. No deep cuts to really show you have any more appreciation for the character than writers from the past 20 years. It's like a 15 year old who just discovered Batman and the Killing Joke is his favorite book of all time when he's read like 5 Batman stories. Cringey really.

Hahaha dude you are one miserable person, and yes I just read a bunch of names off my shelf quickly and put them on a list. Sorry I missed your favourite apparently 🤣, you still have yet too prove this was not just a wannabe killing joke, but with a worse story, that needed to talk down on the killing joke to try and be good, and with worse art then the original Brian bolland art aswell. Gerads is great but no bolland, and I only mentioned 2-3 writers from every decade since the 70s 🤷‍♂️

Also having max as your profile pic makes a lot of sense, since you are the lead member of the goof troop bud. And who did I miss englehart and rucka or Barr, How many authors did you want? 20 lol?

And there is a difference with what Moore did with the killing joke and what Tom king did. Moore didn't disrespect a story by having his villain talk down to previous stories, that are superior to anything kings able to write.

Batmanaholic, how about you prove that this book was a wannabe killing joke and had to talk down on that story to be good with specific examples from the text? Give us excerpts from the text itself.

You never proved that it was a bad book. Just that you have bias against King and you stroke it to the Killing Joke. You also directly insulted everyone else who said it was good IN your review. I did that too but you'd have to make spelling errors in your reviews then lame out an excuse when called on it to think it's a 1/10. There have been many other wanna be Killing Jokes. Most of them bad. This one can actually stand on it's own merits as an amazing story and you are hung up on one line.

Criticizing my profile picture when you are faceless 'Bat-fan2001' isn't really the insult you think it is bud. Max Goof is cooler than this review will ever be.

I bet you stroke it to the riddler getting caned as a kid goof troop. It's ok you like to see kids getting spanked you weirdo.

........ when the riddler literally says he came up with the killing joke plan but it was beneath him...... maybe that's the part where it talks down to it bud lol

Great come back. You really got me. Give yourself a low five for that one. It was another HOMAGE to the movie the origin is based on. But you can't be bothered to know that. Two words: Reading. Comprehension. The Riddler saying something like that to mess with Gordon, saying it was his idea AND that it was beneath him sounds very much like the Riddler yes. So not only do you not understand the Killing Joke, Moore, King, or this book, you also don't understand the Riddler.

I swear these guys always out themselves as A. Dumb, B. Illiterate, and C. Degenerate. Why make a claim about Hex's proclivities, in such an odd, creepy manner?

Because I enjoy wasting your time and his trolling you both at this point? I only answer either of you while I take a dump, and I flush more intelligence down the drain. Then I read in either of your defences of this horrible comic. I am a pretty fair reviewer, this is the only book I hate. Sue me I do not like it, and both do you crying it's amazing will never change that I think it's absolute trash, and I should use it to wipe my a$$ next time I check your replies🤷‍♂️

It says a lot that that's where your mind goes when trying to troll. You should get some imaging done, because you may have a gastrointestinal disease. A fair reviewer doesn't rate a comic a 1/10 because of one moment in a 64 page story. A fair reviewer would rate fairly, and explain their reasoning beyond a second grade level. ♿

I already have multiple times, Want a short form review for your little mind? The story is crap, Batman acts out of character, the riddler is 100000 times smarter then normal, Batman letting him walk away to his car was dumb as anything I've read... only to kill him 2 months later. Riddlers new origin sucks, everything in this book sucks other then Gerads but his art made the story a 1 and not a negative 4.

What is Batman's character? You're talking about a character that has shifted so thoroughly over his 80+ year history, that pretty much any interpretation is acceptable. "The story is crap" says nothing about why the story is crap. Riddler is a character that is fundamentally supposed to be very intelligent. Now he's too smart? Again, the ending is up for interpretation (much like Killing Joke), and it is not clear that Batman kills Riddler.

*Why* does Riddler's origin suck? Keep in mind, this isn't written as a canon story. And okay, rating a book outside the bounds of the given scale is not being fair reviewer, it's being an idiot.

Did you really enjoy the riddlers new origin being his mean ol dad spanked him everytime he didn't get perfect on a test? That's a really really lame ass origin

You do realize that Riddler's actual origin is that he cheated in a puzzle contest in school, and won, and thereby became obsessed with puzzles and scamming, right?

I've read a few worse Batman stories. Not many, but a few. But I can say for sure this is definitely without a doubt the worst Riddler story ever. Way to kill another classic character, King.

Can you please explain how did Tom king ruin Superman, Superboy, Orion and Lois?

...Yara hasn't ever been to Brazil, her story said it was her first time there since she left as a baby so how would she know what they say? Also you misspelled Brazil.

Axolotl - actually the Brazilian way of spelling "Brazil" is "Brasil."

Oh really? Cool, the more you know.

Maybe they should have hired someone from Brasil to write about a Brasilian character -- instead Joelle admits she'll write Yara as if she grew up in Idaho, trying to discover her Brasilian identity, because Joelle herself is from Idaho.

She created the character, though, so we are stuck with her

Maybe you just never read it that way. They don't have to blatantly say it for it to still be true. That's exactly why it's so hard for people to come out and feel comfortable. Just because you see him in a certain way doesn't mean that's who he actually is.

Excellent summation of the corner DC has put itself in. DCs greatest strength was always the quality of its writing. Right now Marvel wiping the floor with DC writing wise. I'm a Batman fan and honestly I've seen the standard drop dramatically since court of owls.

Say what you want about Morrison but hes having a ball with Hal Jordan's GL.

5G was a terrible idea and Future State was the lite version of it. FS was poorly received and it makes sense that it's too late to ignore it with titles so early out of the gate. But I'm fearing DC is not hearing the readers.

Death Metal went far too long and ended up a bloated mess. Building on a bloated mess is not good editorial decisions. I get it Snyder gave DC everything counts now but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

So as I understand it the alternate Alan Scott is now the only Alan Scott and his original relationships as canon Alan Scott are now beards? Right?

bloated? Take a look at King in Black!!!

the idea of saying that DC is worse than Marvel because of Death Metal and Future State was the same thing that DC fans said about All New All Different! Both have their issues and just wait, DC fans will be throwing shade at Heroes Reborn when that starts!

and @mingthemerciless it's the timeline opening up and making all the continuities one single one. I find this way a way better explanation than Iceman's

It goes back further than death metal. Snyder burned out on batman after court of owls and what did DC do? They gave him the batverse to oversee. Then Kungs run crashed with rooftops. I know many say it was issue 50 but fir me ge lost me with rooftops.

The difference with king in black is that it's written much better and easier to digest than death metal. DM went way too long and had too many tires ins. I got utterly sick of batman who laughs. Had Snyder stuck with Grim Knight or BWL and kept it Gothamcentric it may have worked better. But Snyder has to lay the table for the aborted 5G which then became Future State which leads us to this mess now.

For a start DC needs to dump Snyder Tynion and Bendis. Get more focused on flagship centric ideas for Batman Detective Supes Actionand Justice League. Bring Wonder Woman back from Snyders silly idea of her. Start thinking stories not constant reboots and bix checking.

I agree Narvel may be stepping on the same rake with heroes reborn V2