I haven’t read it yet, but Darkseid always had many women. He does care for sex. He loved Suli, had sex with Tiggra (obviously) and Desaad created many concubines for him even without vocal cords, because letting them talk was too annoying. So sex always was a theme on Apokolips.

Yeah but the way it was written was so uncomfartable! If thats the Darkseid way of doing things, im sorry. I think i have to re-read the old, original stuff. But i didnt like how every single aspect of this story was handled.

I still have to read it, so I can’t say yet if it’s in character for Darkseid. He also forced Mortalla, who originally was a human on earth to live with him on Apokolips, because she looked like Suli. That involved sex, she couldn’t say no to. And he betrayed her with Justeen. Or during Countdown he also told Mary Marvel, that she has to become his concubine if she wanted to work with him.

I have read it now& know what you mean now. I think this Me too agenda is a little too much in this issue& actually contradicts a lot, what was stated in Pre52 comics.

Yes. Standing against rape and discrimination is a good thing. But the writer here doesnt do that. She writes every character in the most unbelievable way to try and push her agenda, but even that she does wrong. Every man is a rapist, every woman is a poor, weak girl, and i think giving her these characters to write was a big mistake

Just imagine the groundbreaking story that could be done in a Female Furies book! Unfortunately, thats not it

Yeah that’s unfortunately true. And she also tries to excuse Granny way too much. Her orphanage actually was well respected on Apokolips& she enjoyed doing it. Or in an Elseworld she enjoyed humiliating Lex. I’m torn between though, since it’s just great to see Desaad again. He’s one of my favorite characters.

Exactly!

It’s actually sad. I always loved the New Gods. Like Byrnes Fourth World run was great& so was Orion, but nowadays writers just can’t do them justice it seems.

Maybe its a combination of not reading the original books, not respecting the legacy and what these characters stand for and trying just too damn hard to put their own voice into the story. So hard, it fails

You perfectly described it 👏

beautifully stated, Nihilist.

Hahahaha that was well put, better written than the issue itself. That said, I feel you are being generous with your score.

I may as well be, RBL, but it really hurts me to give a Batman comic even lower score. It's like watching your favourite sports team losing because they absolutely suck, but even then you try to somewhat defend them. 4/10 possibly would be a more accurate rating, but I need to think it through and browse the comic again to be certain whether or not I should change it.

I understand that, I hate I am rating the current runs of Nightwing, Action Comics and Superman below 5’s but to me they are legimitately that bad. That said, this non-issue could be up there due to the artwork which was great but the writing is a decided 0/10 because as verbose as it was nothing was actually said and the overall story had nil progress.

how do any of these last few issues tie into one another. this series becomes more and more of an incoherent mess.

Well, I wouldn't give it 0/10 story-wise, personally, even if there's no story to begin with. At least it didn't insult me, like Batman Damned, or Heroes in Crisis. To me, it was just a shallow, meaningless filler, and as myconius said, the series is becoming more and more of an incoherent mess.

i'm thinking more and more that this 100+ issue Batman run is solely an editorial mandate that King had thrust upon him. IF that is the case he should at least do better than phoning in this jumbled mess of empty fillers.

my predictions for the course of the series .... next issue, Batman goes to the Dentist. he has a cavity. ....following issue, Batman & Alfred eat cucumber sandwiches. .....next issue, Batman punches Kite-Man. .....next issue, Batman rearranges his Bat-a-rang collection. .....next issue, Alfred teaches Batman how to Dougie. you know why? cuz all the girlies love 'em.

Oh, yes, a batarang organizing issue. I can already see it. "How did they get so disorganized?", "How do I organize them?".Preferebly with a legend serving as a parallel to it.

I’d actually find an issue devoted to the organization/functioning of the utility belt amusing. But as that seems like a sensible choice and something people would enjoy, I doubt it would happen.

King said this issue would fit with the last one in the end, so Ill wait. As for this one, it was ok, but nothing great either.

i'm still waiting for the follow-up to the cucumber sandwiches.

Well Pyg still wasn’t that bad portrayed here, but since it was just an illusion, it ruined him somehow

i just felt Pyg's appearance here was totally out of left field and ultimately pointless. especially since the series left off with Alfred all beat up in the bat-cave with Flashpoint Batman sneaking up on Bruce. this is now TWO whole issues wasted that should have furthered the plot. ..or whatever it is that Tom King is trying to pass off as a plot.

I know& agree, but I’ll wait until I fully judge it, because King said that after Flashpoint Batman there was this 7 issues Knightmare arc& that it would all make sense in the end. I didn’t hate this issue, it was ok, but nothing special.

Loved your review, don't know how I feel about the CIA comment.

i always felt that someone bragging publicly that they were in the CIA was just a bad idea. i mean IF you have knowledge of covert ops of any kind, wouldn't you want to keep that secret? it just seems like very immature behavior and very irresponsible. the guy's as subtle as a bullhorn.

It somehow makes King cooler. FBIwould have been cooler though. Think of X Files I mean.

i personally think it's been cooler of him to not boast and be more humble about it. plus if you really do know some deep dark secrets of the government you shouldn't make the wold aware that your heads full of all kinds of private information.

Yeah that’s kind of true, but maybe it’s just me, but I think it’s weird, that DC hires a former CIA agent, they aren’t authors.

Tom Clancy was not involved in espionage yet wrote almost solely about that. It can be done, ya dingus. Just having writer as your profession doesn’t mean you’ll be able to produce great comics.

You should have some talent& with the bad dialogue King often is writing I think I have a point. The way Dick sounded in Batman 55 made it unreadable for me.

At first there was hope, at least I fel like it. I Am Gotham and I Am Suicide were great, and then Mister Miracle was generally praised. It just feels like King burned out completely in recent year, year and a half. Batman went completely downhill with #50 causing an avalanche of hate, and Heroes in Crisis is utter trash. Don't know what happened, he's just unable to write well anymore.

DC has burned Tom King out. he rose far too quickly, and now he's peaked and is nose diving FAST! ...if DC editorial was smart (which they are NOT) they'd end his run at the original planned 100, and get a few co-writers in there to help him finish the run. he had a co-writer with Grayson, but even then he didn't actually finish the run. it was passed off to another team.

First Batman titles were ok& I was disappointed by Mr. Miracle in the end, but 100# are just too much for him& he has this 2week schedule, so I’m not surprised, that the quality isn’t that good. But overall he’s a mediocre talented writer.

DC's biggest problem is they enjoyed the success of Grant Morrison's incredibly long Batman run, and have been trying to replicate it ever since. they can't! they prolonged Snyder & Capullo run on Batman and that overstayed it's welcome. and now DC is running Tom King's Batman into the ground.

I didn’t like Morrison’s Batman run, but Doug Moench& Chuck Dixon did a great job with Batman in the 90ies. They deserve to write 100 issues, but I can’t see King managing that.

Morrison's Batman is definitely not for everyone. though i can understand why some are turned off from it. though i'm still baffled as to why anyone can praise Tom King's Batman as anything more than being mediocre at best. even his 'I AM...' stories were very cringe worthy. hell! i was cringing at issue #1.

Yeah I agree, maybe they see it from a different point of view. If it was an Elseworld it would be way better. King at least uses the villains. Doug Moench was one of my favorite writers. Wish he would return. Or Manning could write Batman.

my thoughts are that some folks just worship and praise anything he turns in, no matter what the level of quality. that can actually be said for just about any writer honestly.

That happens, inversely as well, but I think regardless of that people can agree that these past 2 issues have done nothing to advance the plot and are thusly pointless. Regardless of dialogue and presentation it did not do what a comic is meant to do which is tell a story.

textbook filler.

Yeah some fans do, but I’m not. Like Dan Jurgens for example. Hunters Prey was great, but Batman Beyond is so disappointing.

I have never believed in the whole “praising every work from x writer because I liked all his/her other stuff.” I am constantly disappointed by some of my favorite writers. In fact, before Batman I was a pretty big King fan. :)

Wasn’t disappointed by my favorite writers yet, but I expected more of Dan Jurgens. Yeah sorry to hear that, maybe Batman becomes better at some point. It’s just too much work King has I think.

i can't blindly praise. Grant Morrison, Peter Tomasi, Chuck Dixon, Frank Miller ... (OH! especially Frank Miller!) have all done stories that i don't care for.

With Chuck Dixon it’s weird. I like many of his stories, but his newest Babe story was underwhelming. Doug Moench never disappointed me so far.

but it's perfectly normal for a writer to have an "OFF" story that doesn't quite cut it. people are only human. can't reach perfection all of the time.

That’s true though.

that being said... i think King might be holding the comics record for the most consistent "OFF" Batman stories in a row.

Ive read stories where characters were way more out if character, so King is ok for me. Nothing great, nothing bad, just mediocre.

i find King's Batman to be a parody of the character. funnier than most comics that are actually trying to be humorous. unless that was his intent all along?

I mean, if you want to look at the gold standard for off character’s look at bendis writing event books and anyone iconic or long-storied. If you don’t want to look far, look at current state of Superman and pretty much everyone in the book and Lobdell’s Nightwing.

Comics from The 80- 2000+ were funny. Don’t think it’s that bad, I’ve read worse like Darkseid War or Rock of Ages both were awful in so many ways. Nightwing was great.

there's a big difference between intentional comedy versus trying to be taken seriously but coming off as a joke. ...case and point "save Martha".

With Martha I think many didn’t get it. The jokes are funny, but I didn’t think it was funny, when I first watched the movie, because I got what Batman was thinking.

I didn't find it funny either. I mean, it was clearly poorly written, after all who normally calls their mom by her name? The joke indeed may have been a bit funny at first, but after few days it got old. But as with anything normies touch, it has become painfully overused.

Some people do indeed, but it made sense for calling her Martha, since how else would Batman know if he saved the right woman? Besides it was to show, that Superman is human.

at least he called his mother "Martha" and not "Brick House". . . . . . she's a BRICK . . . HOUSE.

maybe he should have? ... The lady's stacked and that's a fact Ain't holding nothing back

Not a fan of how King thinks Batman views Barbara. Not a fan of King's writing of Harley in general.

i wonder if King did all his research for Barbara Gordon by watching the animated version of The Killing Joke? ....he probably did his research for Harley by watching the live action movie Suicide Squad.

Honestly don't know at this point.

Dang, myconius, touche! I'm genuinely envious of this punchline. I wish I came up with this masterpiece. I salute you, my friend.

hahaha! thank you Nihilist! i have my moments. ^__^

That was a pretty outstanding joke! Two thumbs up!

:-)

It's so edgy. The sexualization just makes it 3x worse.

Yup, pretty much. King seems to be an Azzarello wannabe. Like Batman Damned wasn't terrible enough on its own, now it has a little brother, equally bad, oversexualized and out of character.

The Batgirl panels made me very uncomfortable. A highly sexualised figure with large breasts and huge ass, all to show a bullet mark that almost killed then traumatised Barbara? Surely there was a better way to do it? It’s similar to the sexualisation of Ivy’s dead body on one of the proposed covers for a future issue.

I agree with everything but Snyder's Batman. He was a meathead.

I don’t think they are oversexualized in HiC. Batgirl was just showing her scars& like every human she has a butt. What should DC do? Turning their outfits into Burkas for this event? Sexualization isn’t what is wrong with HiC in my opinion, it’s rather the portrayal and handeling of some characters.

Big Brother - excellent analogy of Snyder's Batman.

I think it was more about intimacy, these were vulnerable moments never meant to be shared, any sort of oversexualization added to this point. The "copy and paste panels" for example sets a tone and pace for a sorta broken, mysterious, private atmosphere. I also have no idea why you have a problem with Harley, but we all read different stuff, she must be someone completely different to you :( to me for example she is 'that insane clown bitch I hate' so it works, the peices fit, just missing some

@Aether Well problem with Harley these days is, that DC doesn’t portray her as the „insane clown bitch“, but as a poor little victim of Joker, who fights her way back to life. DC portrays her as a hero& ignores, that she alone is responsible for her crimes, especially for the kids she killed. At least that’s my problem with HQ these days, her hypocrisy& how much she gets overpowered these days. Miss the days, when Joker& Batman punched her in the face.

myconius & Big Brother - I wouldn't go as far to say that he was a meathead, but definitely too many quips and jokes for Bats

SONOFBATMANN - i was just thinking in regards to how many times Snyder's Batman clumsily bumbled over the tripwire in the Owls story. or when despite recent evidence Batman was convinced that the Court was not real because he couldn't find them when he was 10 years old. or Batman needlessly bashing Nightwing's tooth out of his mouth. "hey Dick, we need to surgically remove something from your tooth." ... nope. (WHAM!)

Batman beat a tooth out of Nightwings mouth?

yeah. it was in New52 Batman issue #7.

Thank you, couldn’t remember that. Was kind of weird. I only remember Bruce beating Dick in Bruce Wayne Murderer.

you're welcome. ....Bruce Wayne Murderer, now THAT was GREAT story! at least the first half. second half was good, but not as memorable.

I don't know where in this issue HQ was sexualized. As for Batgirl, I didn't think anything was wrong with that interview page when I read it. Then I read some reviews and looked at it again. Still, don't see it. As for Lois. What is wrong with wife seductively coming into the bedroom where her husband is?

i think the proble egon is everyone is being sexy in a book where nobody cares about the slaughter and the book has left any mental health issues it claimed to be about far, far behind.

Truth be told, I don't think there were many mental issues in it, to begin with.

Me neither. The entire event is shallower than a pond, and the entire mental health potential it has, conceptually, was completely lost due to King's poor writing and even worse characterization of many key heroes. Oversexualization, as bad s it may be, seems like a distraction compared to awful writing underneath it. Same can be said about Azzarello's Batman Damned, another garbage of a comic.

But it's simply about dealing with the mentally disturbed, in a compassionate way. Everyone clearly cares about the slaughter!Beetle is broing out with Booster, Batgirl sharing common ground with Harley, all to gain further understanding. Ya got the Trinity all high strung and confused, everyone is clearly investigating. To think it's all just about tits and ass is frankly disturbing.

It's a short mystery Crisis story... in league with something like Identity Crisis, but much better so far. This story has far more personality, while balancing its dramatic themes well and clearly with imposing force. But, if you hate the characterizations I guess there would be no saving this one for you. I just think writers should have a chance to work with characters that are more malleable, and not bound by other interpretations in such a rigid way.

In my opinion Identity Crisis is a far better story than HiC. Identity Crisis qquestioned the heroes methods, but there is no real plot in HiC yet apart from deaths for shock value.

Maybe it'll be like some non-lethal/non-permanent toxin knock-off...? Idk...

it was left as a cliff hanger. so hopefully Batman has some Anti-Joker Gas antidote readily available in his Utility belt?

Hopefully indeed!

How were the New Gods characterized different in Darkseid War

Everything about them were changed like for example Pre52 Metron invented the Moebius chair himself to gain knowledge. In DW he didn’t& everyone could become him, if they just sat on the chair. Or Darkseid‘s Omega Beams were different& he was also weaker& not very smart, what he usually is. Turning the heroes into New Gods itself didn’t make any sense. Darkseid also doesnt care about Kalibak or his children, maybe only about Orion. Darkseid‘s & Desaads relationship also was ruined.

Darkseid would never try to conquer anything without Desaads help. Guess that’s why he ended up so badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fjbI5C80a0

Thank you for the link, I’ll check it out.