I took it as the “replaced” friends returning. So the Hand grabbed them, shoved them in hell, and assumed their forms/lives on earth. Matt just released these people. At least, that’s how it made sense to me.

C02 is correct. You need to do a second read through TC. Everything that's happening has been explained. Theres a portal to the underwold that matt entered into and thats what he sends them through

I hope The Wild was behind or manipulating Goldy because I also haven’t liked that aspect of this second half.

That’s what was missing! We should have had a running flow of Dick’s thoughts if we’re him for the issue. We barely had any thought boxes, which honestly has been a complaint of mine for a while on this series, but stands out a lot in a first person perspective.

You, sir, are my hero. I keep reading about this is a return to basics, couple of problems. One, Hal as a pilot makes no sense in 2023. The secret identity thing does not work for him. He is a fun-time cop. That is his day job. Two, he is not supposed to be stupid, yet you nail it. They are writing him as a stupid 20 year old who is afraid he will miss out on life but won’t change his bad habits. Not a good look. Keep up the good work.

I took him getting a job more as he’s stuck on Earth after quitting to GLC and needs money, not that he’s specifically trying to maintain a secret identity.

Could be, so fair enough. But I still maintain that the whole going back to Ferris Air is just silly. I think Jusonemore gets it right. But I could be wrong. And let’s face it, Hal know a lot of people like Bruce Wayne, who can get him gainful employment without Hal being creepy around ex-girlfriend.

Totally agree

Yeah, I feel like Hal did show growth across Johns’ run and Venditti’s HJGLC. We saw Hal deal with seeing Carol in serious relationships (she was even married when he came back to life), then they move into a close friendship, then back to a romantic couple (well after her divorce). Hal has gained maturity. He’s situated to be able to have a more stable hero life - we’ve got lots of GLs. I hope the run gives him and Carol development toward The End. The immaturity cycle is what feels forced.

Yeah, totally. What I like about Hal is that he seems like an inmature character, and sometimes he is, but he always ends Up behaving like a Hero and an adult Who knows how yo deal with the weight he has. Here we simply see that inmaturity multiplied, and nothing more. Its still soon so i hope It gets better.

Yeah, I thought this issue was going to have Dick pretend to want the powers to trick Neron or something. The lack of stakes, urgency, real temptation, etc. really hurt this issue. I think the imp issue even had more weight and dynamic fighting than this one.

I really enjoyed the family theme to this opening issue. As you mention, that has been a huge part of the recent Flash comics. I was disappointed to hear that Jeremy Adams was off the Flash book. His run got me into the character and extended family. It was bright, hopeful, optimistic and fun. I don't think Si Spurrier will be focusing much on family when he takes over.

I have a terrible feeling your correct. It seems the big two love to reboot books every so often to get that #1 sales boost even if the book they're doing it to is beloved by a ton of fans.

I'll check out the new flash but this may be my new favorite tight knit family/team book.

Flash may be keeping its numbering tho. Not sure. I think it's going back to its original numbering 800 which is like selling a #1.

Hoping for good things from this Green Arrow run. Great news that it's been extended to 12 issues.

@Wakizashi Gray, if you really like the extended family aspect of the Flash and haven't read it yet, Mark Waid's Flash is hands down the best Flash run ever and is a big part of the start of the expansion of characters we now have. Can't recommend it enough.

@Hex Thanks for the recommendation.

I just wanted to say that I agree with you. Worst spiderman run ever

,,Cant keep her legs shut for a while'', yeah, so much respect to the character in that sentence. Dude, you dont even know how long she has been there, ''a while'', like you say, could be like five or six years. Six years without your boyfriend its not a while. And, he literally does nothing? Really? Steal the fantastic four, create a portal to another world and save a family is nothing? If you didnt like the issue I obviously respect it, but man, I dont understand spidey fans jajajaja.

You are correct, I have zero respect for this character as written, this is not the MJ I grew up with. The Renew Your Vows run, THAT is the MJ I grew up with. They did this with Gwen during "Sins Past" everyone hated it. This is the same thing. And yes, Peter was feckless in this issue. So the dude stole from his friends, that takes A lot of doing, half the FF was gone until after Peter got the reactor. You think if Mister Fantastic was in his lab Peter coulda done that? No.

Further, I meant more Peter did nothing to stop the treat, he got there, provided a distraction while getting his ass kicked and Paul stabs the big bad. And on the time jump, no we do no how much time passed, but extrapolating from how long Peter was gone from new York while he was there (2 weeks passed in NY to one day there) the kids are 8-9 years old! You telling me it took Peter approx 6 months to get back???

Also, If a time dilation occured, MJ would also be physically older, she doesn't give any signs of this being the case other than her hair is different.

Peter acts erratic and out of character. FFS he PUNCHED Cap last issue, instead of getting the greatest minds together to help him he alienates everyone around him. This further tells me it wasn't 6+ months till he got back, meaning there is no way MJ coulda had kids at those ages unless we are bringing "magic" back the Marvel States it doesn't have to explain cause its very nature of being "magic"....which is an excuse for very shitty story telling.

Mmmm, i dont see ir that way. First, of course mj its not different, Peter is the dame phisically as he was 20 years before this arc and this run, people in superheroes cómics doesnt change, that's not an argument. About the rest, i can understand It, but we have different opinions. I respect It so i wont say anything to you.

Sure Peter is the same as he was 20 years ago, but so is everyone else. They aged, then de-aged Captain America at one point, thus they DO depict aging in relation to other characters. MJ would have , in relation to peter, aged.

Marvel did this "its magic, we don't have to explain it" scrap during One More Day. It was shitty writing to make something happen cause they didn't want Peter and MJ together then, and its shitty writing now. Plain and simple. Its funny that DC never fucks with Superman and Lois like this.

...Except that time DC fucked with Superman and Lois like this by breaking them up for the reboot.

....and come to find out, that wasn't the REAL Lois and clark, who eventually came back in the story and had a son. Yeah, I know about the new 52, wasn't received well, that superman who was with wonder woman instead of Lois was an alternate universe superman, was killed off and the real one took his place within that universe. Difference is....THIS is the real Peter and MJ from the 616 universe.

Even if your recollection of how that went was correct (and I don't think it is), that's just DC Rebirth retconning things. Who's to say that 5 years out from this story, they don't retcon it to not be the real Peter and MJ? You're not thinking this through. You can hate it all you want, but be consistent at least.

I am 100% consistent here. This is The Amazing Spider-man , flagship title of Marvel and Spider-man. This is the 616 universe, nothing has happened like a full brand reboot that happened in the new 52. Also I am correct in what happened in the new 52 and you can tell by when the Superman who remains alive said he died once too and came back, hinting that this is the original superman who died from Doomsday. And even if the retcon happens here, it doesn't make this a good story.

Spencer effectively retconned "sins past" doesn't make "sin's past" a good story now. "Sin's past" was bad then, it's STILL bad. This is bad now, even if its reconnect it will STILL be bad. I am consistent in this.

New52 scrunched time, so characters were younger. That allowed DC to say certain characters had never been together. Lois and Clark didn't break up or need a reason to be separated, so neither was dragged through the mud as seems to be the case here. In terms of time dilation, other comics have done it, shown temptation, and then overcame it, but that diesn't seem to be the story being told h. MJ's history both with Peter and with her family don't really fit where this series seems to be going.

While it does sound like a weird redo/parallel of Sins Past, I'm really hoping that's not the case. I also hope it's not just 10 years later, too bad, bbye. Give me a good old devil swap or more freaking clones. Anyway, I stopped reading a while ago. There are plenty of good Spidey stories with the marriage in tact.

Truth.

For 5 years, the New 52 Lois and Clark were the real ones. And even after the pre-New 52 versions came back, the reasoning was that the New 52 versions were split from the others, so they were always the real characters anyway. The inconsistency is that you're excusing DC fucking with Lois and Clark by acting like the New 52 is a separate universe, when it isn't.

If a retcon changes the dynamic of the storytelling like you seem to think, you can't judge this current ASM story since it may be retconned, and therefore disclassified as "fucking around" per your standards.

This is where you are misunderstanding. New 52 Superman was never considered the real superman (see https://screenrant.com/how-did-new-52-superman-die-dc-rebirth/#:~:text=With%20the%20help%20of%20the%20returned%20Post-Crisis%20Superman%2C,body%20went%20up%20in%20an%20explosion%20of%20power.) Or see: https://www.cbr.com/how-new-52-superman-died/ New 52 superman was recognized as a completely different superman as he was brasher, less refined, edgier and over all rougher Superman than previous.

Again as I said earlier, A region to ASM wouldn't make this issue any less of A trainwreck. This IS the 616 Peter, this IS the 616 MJ. This IS the 616, there hasn't been a reboot of marvel as DC does like every other year. Further, I am not saying I was alright with how the new 52 was, I disagreed with it then. But the mea culpa by DC was to give the fans what they wanted (Clark and Lois plus a kid). Though that doesn't mean that the new 52 was goood.

Bad issues are bad issues despite a "retcon". Difference is, new 52 Superman was markedly different than the prior superman, hell the dude sometime bordered on being like the superman from Injustice. My point remains DC never fucked with the actual Lois and Clark. If they had done this story in ASM as a " What if...?" Or something else that didn't fuck with the canon of 616, then it'd not be as bad, just a comic that I could do without. THIS is a serious dick slap to fans face.

Do I need to explain the concept of time? The concept of context? Now we separate the two, because of Convergence. Before that point, there was no separation. Readers had no reason to think that the New 52 version of the characters weren't the main versions of them.

Rebirth then established that they were split versions of the characters caused by Flashpoint. Rebirth also established that the New 52 universe is the same universe as pre-flashpoint, but with time removed.

You were wrong in your comment about DC not fucking around with Lois and Clark, because you're not very knowledgeable about comics, and you have to bullshit to make yourself right

Split versions inherently means it wasn't the real one. How in the hell is that bullshitting. Sounds to me like you're trying to dig yourself out of a hole.

Also, how many times do I have to say, Retcon doesn't make the original story good. Bad stories are still bad, generally indicating the need for the retcon in the first place. They never fucked over Lois and Clark like this. Even if you want to say they were part of the same, they weren't the actual same characters. Even if they were, they didn't do THIS. They didn't cuck Clark. Lois didn't have someone else's kids. They didn't character assassinate. They didn't make anything unfixable.

DC didn't even go as far as one More Day and this is WAY worse than OMD. I repeat: DC never fuck Lois and Clark like this.

The split versions thing was a retcon. Before that, they were considered the genuine article. I feel like I need to get in MS Paint and draw you a timeline, because apparently point A to B doesn't make sense to you. I never said you thought the stories were good because of retconning, I don't know where that came from. I simply said that you're excusing DC fucking with Lois and Clark in a way totally comparable to OMD because it, in hindsight, was retconned after half a decade.

You clearly didn't read these comics so I don't know why I'm bothering to continue arguing with you. Take the L, or dig that trench you're in deeper.

You're continuing to argue because you can't stand to be wrong like you so clearly are. I've already been over this, at the time of new 52, as in when it was written, no one thought it was the real superman, dude was completely different. I feel like I'm trying to explain something to a flat eather here.

Here this is as simple as I can make it: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/articles/five-biggest-ways-dcs-the-new-52-has-changed-the-s/1100-143555/ An article dated Sept 7, 2011. The month after new 52 released. Here's a quote:"The stage is being set and this clearly isn't the Superman we've gotten used to over the last couple decades." No one thought he was the same superman, stop being a putz.

They're talking about the shift in characterization, not the literal universe/character designation! Do you need help? Are you okay?

Omg no one thought it was the real superman BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS. It was a new universe, it had just been rebooted, there have been multiple superman in the past, no one thought that this one was the same one. How dense can you get? My dog gets these types of concepts.

For fucks sake! The label is the "NEW 52" do I have to define "new" for you too?!

Another article from that time period: "The relaunch of Superman and Wonder Woman was describe as characters over icons. Particularly in the case of Superman, it was felt that Fthe iconography of superman overruled the character and made it hard for readers and creators to connects with the character." https://bleedingcool.com/comics/recent-updates/the-new-52-will-always-be-the-new-52-dan-didio/ Its clear this superman was so vastly different that people couldn't connect t to him.

In peoples minds, if they fail to connect to a character because of all the vast differences, he is fundamentally a different character.

In the New 52 era, which universe was the main universe?

Going further, a redditer (not that I normally use reddit as a source, but this tells the feelings of the fans at the time) "Now the problem here was that Superman wasn't welcomed with open arms by the older, more perennial fans. This wasn't their Superman. Their Superman was much more inspiring than this one. " Again, people felt that this wasn't the real superman

That's like saying if marvel nixed the 616 universe and only had the Ultimate universe, the Ultimate universe Peter woulda been the "real" Peter. When infact, he was vastly different.

If Marvel had ended the 616 universe, and then rebooted using the plans for the Ultimate Universe, that Peter Parker would be the canonical Peter Parker.

I'm sorry...but no. He'd be the replacement.

Then pre-Flashpoint Superman is just the replacement of pre-Crisis Superman and he wasn't the real Superman either.

And thus it goes. Back further and further. This is the problem with DC, and why the did the original Crisis on infinite earth events. However, arguably none had varied much from any previous version in any consequential way EXCEPT the New 52 version and Golden Age. TBF, Golden age is the "original" but got relocated to "Earth 2" later. But even some stories overlap directly between Golden age and Silver age, powers were different, but the tone of the character remained.

The only Prime Earth version that deviated tonal wise much since crisis on infinite earths was the New 52 version. The very soul of the character had changed as opposed to all the changes prior. Its all very hard to keep track of due to all of the multiverse, then no multiverse, then multi verse again things going on, but it's considered that new 52 superman was ultimately a different character than post crisis superman, basically an imposter that people at the time recognized something wrong.

Just because a character is named superman does not make it so, take Superboy for instance. Orginally, he had no name besides "Superman". When the original Superman returned, he declared that the clone had earned the name "Superboy", much to his dismay. Cyborg Superman also took the name of " Superman".

Canonically, New 52 Superman was part of Pre-Flashpoint Superman. The two had been split apart as a result of Flashpoint, and then they were merged during Rebirth. If you were to read Post-Crisis Superman to present, you would include the New 52 era in that reading.

Canonically, red superman and blue superman were part of post crisis superman as well, but neither of them were "the" superman. Further, as we established earlier, New 52 Superman being part of posts crisis Superman was a retcon. At the time, no one believed he was one and the same. If I gave you half a snickers bar, that does not mean I gave you a snickers bar, it simply mean I gave you half.

Professor X and Magneto are each separate and distinct characters. But they are each half of Onslaught. Do we then call professor X by himself "Onslaught"? Firestorm, two people combining to make one hero, but neither are the hero by themself. The Sentry and the Void are treated as two separate individual characters even though they're technically one in the same.

Point being there has never been a time (that I can recall) when a comic character is either split or two halves becoming one where each half isn't treated as separate and distinct from the whole. For some reason, Darkwing Duck keeps coming up in my mind, Negaduck was Dark Wing's evil side split off, but was referred as a completely separate being.

Or some people just don't like how the fight ended? There's been chatter about wanting an Ultrman confrontation since the age up, so it doesn't surprise me that a number of reviews aren't satisfied with how this turned out.