Read waid and johns runs You will like

The Absolute line is above average, but it’s not that great. I don’t get all the inflated reviews.

Thank you Superman Fan. Geoff John's and Mark Waid are two of my favourite writers. I will check these out. Which one do you recommend starting with?

Mego-joe - "it’s hard to find a reason for the existence of any of these Absolute characters out side of being different just for the sake of being different" I see this kind of commentary a lot. It's utterly arbitrary. Why should anything exist? It's obviously so they can tell fresh stories without adhering to the main continuity.

If that’s all you’ve got there’s got to be something within the story itself. That’s just not enough of a compelling reason. It didn’t work in the New 52. Why will it work now.

You see that comment a lot because it’s valid.

Start with waid Flash 74 - 79 will make you love wally more

I'm sorry, I completely disagree with you and we aren't going to see eye to eye. I'll have fun reading the comics and you can ponder whether they should exist or not. 7 is a high score for something that you think should not exist.

A single issue can be done well even if it isn’t compelling enough to bring you back. Differing opinions are fine. I want to understand what others like in what they like. The why’s of it. I just don’t see why a new version of the character is necessary. Do you like the character or idea of the character? What’s the reason to like it besides that it’s a new continuity? Why go back with a character instead of forward?

Because the main lines aren't selling. That's the real reason. So they switch up the talent and put a spin on things. There is an in universe reason as to why we have these and I honestly think that is compelling enough as it is. In a world without hope, one created by Darkseid that still fields the same heroes, what about them would change? It's a fomula that has worked for years. What If?, Elseworlds. This is THE Elseworld.

Then add on top of that strong writers and burgeoning artists and you have the EXACT reason this should exist. People aren't reading The Flash, or Batman, or Superman. Not in the numbers that they are the Absolute line. You might not like it but that just means you are not a part of the majority. Which is fine but to dismiss it because you aren't a part of the percentage that is reading these over mainline is just unnecessary.

People have many reasons to switch up. Most of the time I see people jumping off runs because of writers they don't like and coming back because of one they do. The Flash is a pretty good example actually. The same can be said for artists though they are less consistent in long runs than they used to be. A single writer can have many different artists during a run so that's just not as much of a thing anymore. Tonal shift, status quo. There are so many reasons to leave and come back a character.

Also, like Superman Fan said. Waid's run is amazing. Probably the single greatest run on the Flash ever. It's what got me into the Flash and being a die hard Wally fan. He established the Speed Force, the Flash Family. Everything that has been transformed over the years that a lot of people clamor for it's full return. And while we get pieces of it back it has never been the same. But start on 62, not 75. 62 is the start of Waid's run and redoes his origin. Easy jumping on point.

Just bought Waid's Flash omnibus! Cheers guys.

I don’t find the in story reason compelling. If you do that’s fine. Imagine if they just had good talent on the mainline books….

@Hex hot-take: I personally like Geoff Johns a bit more than Mark WAid. Yes, Mark WAid introduced a lot of Flash co ntent and is the template for Flash runs. But Geoff Johns writing just works for me more, while Mark Waid has short anthology stories. I still enjoy Mark Waid and give it an 8.5 (I finished both Mark Waid's runs). But personally I enjoyed Geoff Johns a bit more on subjective manner

@motorik I would recommend checking out Grant Morrison/Mark Millar's Flash run. It's just 12 issues but that run brought in crazy time dimensional concepts that transformed Flash into an OP character done right.

I’m with Joe on this. Give me lemire on the regular book not spurrier. But I still had fun with this book

@daspidaboy, two of my favourites. I love Millars Jupiter Legacy. Such a shame the tv adaption missed the mark. I will check them out!

You aren’t going to get this talent in the main books because of the lack of creative freedom and the weight of continuity.

@George - exactly mate. You understand it. I understand it. It's not complicated. Can't wait for Absolute Martian Manhuter next week. By the wonderful Deniz Camp no less.

@motorik - manhunter looks crazy cool. If you like Camp and you haven’t read it yet you should check out Assorted Crisis Events.

Sus Gabe they call him lol.

@mego-joe they could have the best talent in the world on the mainline books and it would still be hit or miss. Some writers have easy go of it writing within the constraints of editorial mandates and being pinned down by continuity, some don't. But when you can start something like this and you don't have to hold to any previous stories, the take can be fresh, the writer can take the story and the character wherever they want. It's basically and Image book with DC characters.

P.S. Lemire is the king of hit or miss on mainline books. He doesn't work well with editorial mandates. Just check out his X-Men for a good example of that.

One of my comments was that it works better as a brand new character for this and WW. Current JSA demonstrates Lemire’s struggle inside continuity. I’d say a great comic writer wouldn’t have a problem inside mainline continuity if they understand the character and are writing the character and not the idea of the character.

Any decent writer can come up with something without constraints, it takes a really great writer to do it inside continuity. Venditti’s Hawkman is a great example of this. He did something very creative and interesting not only in continuity but in a complex and often contradictory continuity and made it work.

Despite disagreement I really appreciate the conversation! Thanks all!

@mego-joe When Lemire is on point, he's fantastic. His more recent works have not hit high. Gideon Falls and Ascender/Descender were absolutely amazing. I do agree, his JLA is patchy but I'm enjoying it. We may disagree here but it seems we are all passionate and avid readers. We're keeping it alive.

His New 52 Animal Man was great, I loved his Frankenstein Agent of SHADE and The Terrifics. In enjoyed the first volume of Black Hammer, but that’s almost satire. It’s in a weird space.

I respect your opinion. But let me ask you a question. Isn't Jay the Flash? The first one who also inspired Barry? Isn't Wally the Flash? The kid who took on the role of his uncle/idol to preserve and carry on his legacy? The Flash is about legacy. Jay, Barry and Wally are the Flash. They inspire each other.

The story is meant to be disjointed as it reflects what is happening to him.

Barry was always kind of a nothing character though. Wally was always the one with the personality. Barry is a loner. His own fiance didn't even like him in the beginning of his own book because he was such a white bread sandwich. And he has only been The Flash longer than Wally for a shockingly little amount of time comparatively. Most things people love about the Flash, came from Wally's runs and they just attribute it to Barry because of the TV show and his resurgence after N52.

Barry was my first Flash. Issue 306 to be exact (great issue). I read Barry backwards from there. Before the death of Iris, Barry met the stereotype of the silver age hero that had no hero’s journey. A hero right out of the box. Wally had a hero’s journey, which is why for me he is the better character. We are late stage in that journey in the main continuity (the whole main dcu feels late stage frankly), so I am looking forward to seeing where this goes.

I respect your opinion, but for me, Wally has always been my Flash (and for a lot of people too). I’ve always found Barry pretty boring (in fact, even in the CW show, they just gave Wally’s personality to Barry Allen). Plus, since this is a reinvention, it makes sense to go with the younger, more reactive Flash who still has to find his way. (I agree with you regarding the back and forward.)

maybe in trade it will work better for you. for example, I'm absolutely sure AF will be even better, but #1 is about establishing tone and characters.

You should try to remember WHY the Absolute characters exist. Even if there are small differences between then and the main continuity characters, the fact that they rely on our previous knowledge is integral to the concept. What changes about Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and now the Flash on a world created by Darkseid? That is what these stories are exploring.

That’s a yawn- I don’t find that concept interesting. That “why “ is not enough to get me back. It’s got to have something more. The Absolute U is not for me, and I’m fine with that. And that’s the problem with the tone and characters- yuck. The exact opposite of drawing me in. The mystery but maybe , but tone characters and the one year later jump? Nope.

Then you're just being a stick in the mud. Things aren't working in the mainline so they tried something new. Sure you can not enjoy it but you acted like it wasn't even there/tried to dismiss their intentions passing it off as being boring. It's at least an idea, just not one you can engage with. Doesn't mean it isn't there.

Well, that’s my opinion. It’s as valid as any other. It’s an idea…just not a good idea.

she just doesn't like hal that's not a crime

She doesn’t like John either….this subplot has the potential to sink the book!

Incel would be the sad sack rage reading and reviewing.

Did you say incel? No. You just wanted a reason to be butthurt. You’re a hawk fan. You don’t need to look for a reason. Dc hates you. Look at the other guy reviews. To all rage reviews against lanterns.

Hmmmm. It’s ok to be upset when characters you like are misused. Lanterns are getting good treatment. DC’s been hurting my feelings for years, and I’ll always voice an opinion.

You should. I did too. First two issues of the hawk abomination I yelled and shook my fist. Then I stop buying it. And so did everyone else. There’s voicing an opinion. And then there’s rage reading. Big difference

My overall review is above, it’s really just this Hawkwoman thing that’s a problem.

Sometimes you review to stand up for your favorite characters if they are getting poorly treated.

Damn straight. He reviews are so utterly negative and brainless.

"she gets into trouble, cries for help, and Superman saves the day." she hasn't acted like this for 50 years or more. Have you read any Superman comics since the 80s? Your ideal Superman is stuck in the 1940s.

My point was that was her fundamental role within the book. We have seen a shift away from that and not for the better. Basically, she is a "Mary Sue" in the book and Superman is emasculated and reduced to being useless unless she helps him or is some how involved. That ain't Superman and the sales show why it shouldn't be. The way they write Lois makes the chracter pretty much insufferable, They do it in such a way that isn't adding to the story, they beat you over the head with it.

She is not a “Mary Sue”, she is a strong character with a very established voice, she has always been a person that Clark can talk to, who understands him, who cares for him, and it has been that way since they became married. , for more than 25 years or even more than that. And “sales show” is not a good argument because since then Superman books have often been on the bestseller list, like AS. Lois is and always will be a very well-defined and important character for any version/story of SM.

Alright, Superman Fan, let’s dissect this logically. You claim Lois Lane isn’t a “Mary Sue” because she has a “very established voice” and has “always been there” for Clark. But here’s the thing—you’ve just confirmed the problem. The issue isn’t that Lois exists, it’s that modern writers have turned her into an infallible, all-knowing, hyper-competent crutch for Superman, who now apparently can’t function unless she’s involved

And let’s talk about “emasculation.” Superman is the ultimate archetype of heroic masculinity—he’s a symbol of strength, virtue, and resilience. But now? He’s reduced to standing around, waiting for Lois to tell him what to do. That’s not compelling storytelling; that’s ideological preaching disguised as character development.

As for the “sales” argument—oh, sure, let’s just ignore decades of declining readership and dwindling interest while patting ourselves on the back for an occasional bestseller. The reality is, people aren’t buying into this watered-down Superman who needs Lois to hold his hand every step of the way. The numbers don’t lie, but apparently, modern comic writers do.

I understand, so now wanting an opinion from a woman you actually care about somehow diminishes your masculinity or your ability to act. American comics haven't sold well for a long time, and often it's not about the quality of the story, but because of the wrong strategies for promoting the universe.

No, but not being able to act without asking her her opinion does. At one point in the book Superman gives up his role in a conversation so that Lois can speak and assume the role of main protagonist. I think I've made my points pretty clear that the writer has turned the Superman book into an avenue for him to deliver "The message" that takes over from telling a story that is good or that makes sense. As for sales see Marie Javins being empowered as Editor in Chief...