Where is this creativity at Marvel? I don't see it past gimmicks (example: Immortal Hulk) for existing characters. Also it is kind of ridiculous to say this exists to ape off of Conan's success considering DC's rich history with fantasy and sword and sorcery. There was a Beowulf series in the New 52, was that also trying to ape off of Conan? Man, Batman is just aping off the success of pulp novels. Man, Spider-man is just aping off the success of Superman.

Immortal Hulk is only a gimmick if you ignore how well it fits the character and plays off that character's rich history. Do me a favor and look at the title page for the Conan books, specifically Savage Sword, and then look at the title page for the Last God. Oh, and it's drawn by someone whose style is very similar to Esad Ribic, who does the covers for the Conan books and did an entire one-shot for the character a few months back. This isn't even a DC book. It's a creator owned book.

It actually has a map with DC lore integrated into it. I saw it a while back.

Have you seen the Conan title pages?

Look it's just imo but a lot of the books at DC currently just reek of editors. Batman not being allowed to continue (I don't like King's Batman but having the decision to cut off his vision nearly 3 quarters in is imo very suspicious), superman awkwardly shoving in legion of super heroes, especially when they were supposed to play a big part in doomsday clock. DC in the last year or so has made decisions that are hasty and not well thought out imo. They should stuck w doomsday clock

In Legion's case, it was actually part of the plan all along. When DC hired Bendis the Jon and Legion stuff was already being pitched as part of the agreement. I agree that ending Tom King's run early is BS because I actually do like it, and the mini is something but it all feels disrespectful and now we will never know if we are getting the true ending. DC has made plenty of bad decisions as far as their biggest 2 go, but overall they have so much good stuff that is getting overlooked.

The plan with Legion was to have Johns do it after Doomsday Clock. Then Hickman was going to do it. Then they went with Bendis.

And what exactly is being overlooked at DC?

Everything that doesn't star a Bat family, Superman, or Wonder Woman.

And no Bendis has said his Legion was part of the initial pitch, source: Word Balloon podcast. He pitched it in 2017.

ya that could have been his pitch, but DC originally had a plan with Johns, the JSA, and Legion. that's clear from doomsday clock. they got greedy and impatient. hence what is currently happening. also you just named the top 3 comics at DC that should be doing well. Marvel is doing well across the board with their popular comics right now, which is the problem. I'm not saying DC is not without good books. I happen to like Green Lantern a lot and Justice League enough as a good blockbuster

but by botching what could have been with doomsday clock, and forcing a change that wasn't the original plan, then that's when fans start to notice. and now we are starting to hear rumors of this 5th generation stuff, and from what i can tell, most people aren't on board with it. Having other characters take over for the top justice league members? It would take insane writing talent to make that work, and I don't think DC has anyone I can trust to make that work at all currently.

DC actually publishes less books than Marvel, yet more end up in the top 20 highest rated books per week often enough, I also disagree that Marvel has all their popular characters together right now. They don't have Bendis, but ASM should be much better (although it has been pretty good as of the recent arc), and with how popular Iron Man and Captain America are... you sure never hear anyone that excited about the current runs. With how many books Marvel publishes there should be way more hits.

You also think they are creative. I disagree. I call them the House of No Ideas (their top 3 creators being excluded.) Creativity doesn't birth comics like Marvel #1000 to cash-in on Detective #1000, bringing back Crazy when MAD just ended, or bringing back Marvel Zombies after seeing DCeased sell gangbusters. If copying DC's success is creativity... well art is dead.

Doomsday Clock put Shazam!, Legion, and JSA on hold. But at the moment there is no evidence they will ruin one another. Braniac explained they are all "possible" timelines, and given Alan Scott is there... it isn't the Doomsday Clock one. Superman also had no idea who the Legion is, and I would usually blame that on Bendis fucking up continuity, but he knows Superman was on the Legion of Superheroes as a boy. Flash recently embellished on it too further referencing how time and space is being

manipulated. Sounds like Manhattan to me.

the state of iron man and captain america is still miles better than superman and batman in my opinion. and marvel isnt really pushing them right now because they know x-men is the current direction they are really pushing, and those books have been good to amazing imo. And I never said that continuity is being messed up right now, i just said it all is getting super convenient and explained because it has to. Originally the metaverse concept in doomsday clock was novel and a good way to

explain everything. But now that Bendis has come along and DC has gotten impatient, they seem to have to come up with explanations for their decisions to appease fans rather than allowing johns to continue his story and for fans to find out that mystery

and if they arent all possible timelines, how can i get invested in a Legion or JSA that wont even get stories, if Bendis's Legion and Snyder's JSA will get prime timeline stories. That just means the Legion and JSA in doomsday clock don't mean anything and that entire plot line is pointless.

Also if you like long runs like I do, you are kind of shit out of luck with Marvel. Hence my name (which is more about number 1s for artificial boosts in general, not just Marvel). Most new series at Marvel don't seem to make it past 20 issues, sometimes it doesn't even make it past 6.

obviously DC is riddled with multiple versions of teams, a la the threeboot Legion, but at least those weren't all at the same time within the same span of 2 years. Why should I care what happens to Legion and JSA in doomsday clock now if the versions in Bendis's book and Snyder's book are supposed to be the real deal? And also to the common layman, all of these timelines are just ridiculously confusing which splits the fanbase even further

I think the Snyder book will not be the real deal, but I am not sure. I never read advanced solicitations. I am assuming they are the younger ones from the "possible" timeline and the main JSA will be old farts in the "main" timeline. With Legion I have literally zero idea what to think of it... it really is a bit of a mess and they shouldn't have jumped the gun with it. Also I think we are typing at the same time... fucking lol.

You are definitely right. The timeline is confusing as heck. Geoff Johns was the hero we needed, but then it all fell apart assumedly because they wanted to remove Bendis so badly from the competition... probably 10 years too late. If they are smart they will get Bendis off Superman and only let him write his own universe of books. He *can* still be good if he tries, like with Batman Universe or Naomi (arguably). I have hated every Naomi appearance outside of her mini, but that is an aside.

DC is destroying Superman, I personally like Batman, but yeah it shouldn't be as divisive as it is. I do think DC is making a lot of bad decisions with the most popular of their characters, but I think with Vertigo and their underdogs they are killing it.

Sorry, Black Label* you know what I meant :^). Also ftr I also think Marvel is doing great, just not in the big picture. They are kind of opposites.

I think Marvel has a good big picture regarding the things currently being set up with 2020, Mephisto, Dawn of X and Marvel Cosmic atm.

ya my main complaint is it's just all too confusing, and the impatience that dc has shown with doomsday clock. At the start of rebirth everything was great, tomasi had a great run on superman going, jurgens on action comics was killing it. batman was great, wonder woman had rucka, but now those days feel so long ago. i think that rebirth started off so well, and around the time bendis came it went south. I have no problem with bendis btw, i think he's written fine and great stuff, just that

his effect on what's happening at dc is a shame. Now the future has the 5g concept of a new generation. and another crisis next year, it's hard to get invested in characters when there will be a reset. this is what happened with me before with new 52, i jumped out of comics, and now that it's happening again, i'm not sure if i want to go through another reboot.

Agree w/ YourGreenMuse. I think marvel has a very good picture of what they want to do with their main properties, and what they want to push, i.e. Guardians and X-Men

Avengers had their time for the past decade, and marvel can't rely on them forever, especially if they want to make more movies (i hate tying the movie/entertainment business with comics, but that's the reality we live in)

Well, Avengers is one of the titles at the heart of the building Mephisto storyline/event/whatever. Mephisto keeps appearing in titles across the line. Making deals and manipulating most every Marvel hero. And in Avengers, he's the big bad. So I do think Avengers still has a large role in the Marvel universe, it just doesn't need the push that X-Men did.