Okay one more thing I just realized. Batman is holding that kryptonite rock in his gloved hands and GG touches with her gloved hands and gets her powers shouldn't that mean that Batman now would have powers?????

That means King is very careless and just as we talked after Batman #84 inconsistencies DC really need some people to review issues looking for flaws before printing.

I hated way more than you did...but, it's Clark who said he didn't follow football in that issue

Since DC stopped giving a flip about their continuity.

Johnny Quick is afraid because he is the only one who could see inside the speedforce. Pretty simple explanation, really.

i think Tom King only killed Alfred out of some desperate attempt to have a lasting effect on Batman comics in general. that bozo doesn't realize that Alfred has been killed before and will eventually come back. the only real lasting effect Tom King has had on Batman was making the single worst Batman run ever in existence.

Selina and Bruce didn't get married, in the end they decided they don't need to as what they have is more than it. Meanwhile, Tom King kept circle-jerking us about a wedding tease. Batman could find much better than her or actually reformed criminals, why he can't be in a relationship for long is because his life as Batman is sure to inflict a toll on any potential partner.

Because no one does care

Agree with myconius. Tom King thing is to kill and degrade characters, He just leave but saddly his mess remains.

writing himself into corners and trying to fake his way through it sums up Tom King's entire run perfectly.

beautifully stated, DC Stuff !!!!

Thanks

Never again will I read a book with Tom King's name on it. Only book I found good of his was Vision. Everything else I found boring or terrible. Hard pass on Batman/Catwoman. My nightmare is his name on Amazing Spider-Man.

@DC Stuff - you're welcome. @Dennis G. Morales - most definitely! i see his name on a book, and i won't even give it a second look. i just cannot wait till his his next and final miserable issue to be done. then his goofy ass gets THE BOOT !!!

lol #SayNoToKing

hahahahahaa

Isn't there some kind of editor that has to stop this crap from happening? I want a refund.

Putting in quotes from writers can be good, I actually like that, but in Kings story it feels out of place.

What do you mean, "how did he escape the Flashpoint timeline?" He jogged away from the end of the universe! Man, you are just too dense to understand the greatness of Tom King!

Can I please repost this, and share so it ultimately makes its way back to him and DC. This was utter garbage and a disgrace what he is doing to these books. Waited and read all that for a reveal for a character I could two S!#% about. Before that the whole retelling of the destruction of Krypton. You have singlehandedly voices my frustration in this post so I thank you.

Oh and let’s not forget this BIG REVEAL coming up. Give me a Fu$&@“-/ break

i really liked your analogy of this comic being like a braindead hollywood blockbuster. empty and shallow are the perfect adjectives to describe this comic.

You sir, are my hero. You nailed King’s Batman quite eloquently. There is just there there.

Texas Chainsaw Massacre by Michael Bay was great though.

(shudder)

I liked both Chainsaw Massacre reboot movies as well, honestly. Bay produced them, though. We were fortunate he didn't direct them. Then again, most old school slashers were modernized, and scare-wise usually they benefited from better effects - Rob Zombie took Halloween, Friday the 13th and The Nightmare on Elm Street were being milked for years, even Hills Have Eyes was done all over.

The original Chainsaw Massacre is great. The second is good for laughs. The rest, reboot included, should not exist.

i'm with YourGreenMuse on this. i hated ALL these horror reboots. esp. Chainsaw Massacre ....though none are more reviled to me than Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead. ...he took THE classic movie that defined the Zombie Horror genre, and turned it into a stinky turd. ...that entire ending was utterly ridiculous.

The first Chainsaw Massacre was great, just like the original first movie. The reboot of the Hills Have Eyes is also way better than the original movie. I spit on your grave Remake is as good as the original one. I also like the new Halloween& even the new Freddy Krüger.

myconius I thoutght that it was Night Of The Living Dead.

pablo - Night of the Living Dead was the movie that started the Zombie genre, but it really was Dawn of the Dead that really defined it. perhaps it was having the input of both George Romero and Dario Argento involved that elevated it to what it was.

We can all agree that Return of the Living Dead is the best one though, right?

what do you think this is about? you think this is a f@&%$ng costume? this is a way of LIFE!

YourGreenMuse - Romero's NotLD, Dawn & Day of the Dead, Return of the Living Dead, Peter Jackson's Dead Alive, Lucio Fulci's Zombi, Hell of the Living Dead ... i love 'em all!

don't count on Batman/Catwoman being anything woth reading. it'll just be more dreck.

Glad when this is finally over & I can read Batman again.

you and me both! i can't wait to read Batman again. because whatever this is, AIN'T Batman!!! ....well at least Tom King has finally been exposed for the fraud that he is. i'm one of the few people that has been absolutely disgusted by this run from the very first issue. ...this awful character Tom King has been writing just is NOT Batman! .... not by a long shot!

There are still people who like this run. But it's far fewer than it used to be.

Those must have never read a single Batman Comic, if they think King portrays these characters right. I think King is still hyped by DC. Otherwise he wouldnt get new runs he can mess up.

What I think is King's biggest writing sin is his style and how inflexible it is, and how one-note it becomes. I think it's a style that people can get into easily, but if you stick around long enough, you notice the patterns, you notice the cracks. And that style does not change, regardless of what he's writing. So, your favorite King comic is almost certainly your first. For me, it's the Vision. I thought King nailed the robotic nature of Vision and his family, as well as the overall tone.

But, then he started writing Batman with that same style and tone... And I was mostly on board with it up until I Am Bane... shoutout to Monster Men for reaffirming that King was a good writer to me after my faith waned with I Am Gotham.

King is certainly a better writer than Steve Orlando... only because Steve Orlando's one note style doesn't have a time-quality correlation.

I don’t have a favorite King Comic, because he was always mediocre at best for me. His Mister Miracle already sounded dumb.

I enjoy Orlando’s writing way more than King. I’m half way through Vision and it just seems off. I hate how King ruins heroes. He just can’t allow anyone to be good. He is an extremely limited writer and even there he sucks.

It makes sense with Vision, at least. Not so much with Batman or Superman or Wally West. Orlando's is just beyond bland to me. Everything I read from him makes me think he was doing it for the paycheck and not out of some creative fulfillment.

i’m no fan of boring and bland writing. but i’d say even the most uninspired snooze-fest is better than the maggot infested, disease ridden sewage that Tom King excretes for stories.

Holy crap! I never expected to see a review like this from you. I’m so shocked that I’m legitimately sad that this disappointed you. Sorry man.

Crazy! I respect you for telling it like you see it and 100% am now hoping the last 4 issues are good!

He walked out of Arkham after a full gauntlet of villains unscathed. Solomon Grundy has taken on and challenged Superman, yet Batman took him out bare-handed without breaking a sweat; accompanied to boot as Amygdala was there too. Bane has already employed a gauntlet tactic against Batman before, in ended with the breaking of the Bat. That story for all the 90’s insanity to follow was far better than whatever this is.

Am I the only one who has no problem with what Arya Stark did?

I have no problem with what she did, this I found more questionable.

I didn't mind what Arya did either.

It's not what she did - with that, I have absolutely no problem. With how she did it, that's what I loathe. 8 years worth of build up and then poof, all gone with one stab. Same here - Batman takes down all these rogues with no effort whatsoever. They are just pawns.

Ehhh, more like four years of build up. The thing is, Game of Thrones wasn't really about the Night King, it was about the... game of thrones. So honestly, I was fine with what happened. I wasn't watching the show just for some supernatural thing to come in and kill everyone. I was watching it because of what the show was about before the Night King became so important.

Hear, hear.

"The purpose of a villain in a superhero story is to challenge the hero, make them embrace their best self, grow and learn." I think this may account for a lot of your dislike for this run. I can't speak for you but, to me, King isn't writing according to that rule. Only my opinion but I'm glad he's not. I like that comics change over time and that traditional roles of heroes and villains do too.

@Batman Jones Well it just doesn’t make any sense, that Batman can beat his villains so easily. It’s just unnecessarily overpowering him to make him& Bane look badass, but it’s disrespectful towards the other villains. That has nothing to do with changing traditional writing it’s just a common mistake many writers are doing, when they put too many villains in one issue. Happened in Shadow of the Bat as well.

@Darkseid24, the way I read King's run, he's taking a lot of poetic license. I don't think he's playing by any of the rules of traditional comic book storytelling. (See Batman taking out a thousand men in I Am Bane for a similar thing.) He didn't in Mister Miracle either. Whether people dig on that or not is up to each reader. I just meant to point out that, IMHO, he's not following the rules. So if a reader expects him to follow the rules, they're bound to be disappointed. A little more...

...I concede that's more problematic in the main Batman title than in his limited series'. I, for one, appreciate it for what it is. I only meant to point out that stuff like "villains are *supposed* to" XYZ doesn't necessarily apply. Also...

An alt-reading that is more traditional could be that Bane ordered them to fall as easily as they did. I think a lot of King's work can be interpreted in different ways. I get why that's frustrating for a lot of readers, esp. on a flagship title.

Or they weren’t that motivated from the very beginning, but still they deserve better.

To me the best way to break a conventional role of a hero/villain is to portray them in shades of grey, humanize them, I suppose deconstruct them. Pre New-52 Mr. Freeze was one of my absolute favourites, since he hardly qualifies as a bad guy per se. Turning someone into a pointless punching bag does only disservice to everyone - both villains and the hero defeating them, since there's no journey leading there. Just one punch, and that's it.

I’ve heard the theory that Bane ordered them to fall but that doesn’t make much sense. These are guys who all have a personal vendetta against Batman but they are willing to just fall for someone else’s plan? And why would Solomon Grundy be willing to do that? Just doesn’t make sense. If you want to break Batman having everyone take turns kicking the crap out of a weakened Batman, because he should be weak after being locked in the nightmare machine, would make more sense than this.

Agreed. It indeed doesn’t make any sense. Best for the villains would be to stay neutral.

@batmanJones He is also not following continuity in his run or in other current books which drives me crazy. Plus, after the wedding we dealt with him just being violent because he was sad and now he is right back into it. He beat Freeze to a pulp for no reason before and now he taunts him and beats him up again? Huge mistake have Man-Bat in Arkham - makes no sense at all!!!

@DC Stuff: I think King's writing a Batman that's been through hell and is unhinged, which is exactly what Bane wants him to be. He's not fighting for truth and justice right now. The question we're dealing with now is how far can Batman fall. He was brutal with Freeze before, he left KGBeast for dead, he punched Gordon in the face... And that was before he was hooked up to a Scarecrow machine and forced to face his greatest nightmares. (cont'd)

Bane's plan is apparently to destroy all that he is or has ever been. That's the story King's writing. To argue he's acting out of character is to agree with King and recognize that Bane's plan is working. There's a reason this arc is called "The Fall and the Fallen." Batman is falling through a bottomless pit of Bane's making. Of course his response to that is out of character.

@batmanjones fine, but again, why is man-bat in Arkham? Like in HIC, he seems to have no idea about what DCU he is writing in or the current continuity.

And @batmanjones, the thing I hate about kings writing is in how you describe it. You have to use a lot of maybe's and apparentlies because he never gives us real clues as to what is going on. Until the end, when we get an exposition filled info dump to show us all there was no way to figure it out as it goes. It happened in this run a bunch of times and really happened in HIC

Bane hasn’t done anything to actually break Batman though. There hasn’t been anything that he hasn’t already gone through before. His out of character actions haven’t been earned.

Agreed Talon. I mean Batman went trough hell? How? All that happened to him was his girlfriend breaking up with him& that’s quite common. Dick getting shot& trying to start anew didn’t bother him much. Banes attempt to break him is quite lame& rather feels like Highschool drama. If Bruce is getting violent because of that then he belongs to Arkham himself& he can’t blame the villains for being criminals, since their life is worse. Sorry but I think it’s cheap& I don’t really buy it,

Im also wondering, why Tim or Damien don’t interfere. Tim always said Batman needs a Robin to not going all crazy. But they get ignored& it also seems Bruve will be an ass towards Alfred in future issues.

If Jason and Damian's deaths didn't break him, I doubt Bane can accomplish anything now. That said, it's not like he can' be a threatening villain, but come on, as Darkeid already said, he didn't accomplish much since the beginning of King's run. He could have broken Gotham Girl, but Bruce, nah, his actions seem less meaningful than what he did to him physically in Knightfall. Personally, I think King tries to build Bane up as a master villain, but forgot to actually establish him as one.

Might well give him the Az-Bats armor already, because this is a poor man’s Knightfall just with the pretentiousness kicked up to 11.

I agree with both of you. But maybe City of Bane will be great. At least the cover looks great.

It would be the first in 70 some issues so I wouldn’t hold my breath for a great arc.

Yeah you are unfortunately right. Some were ok, but none of them were great in my opinion.

Dunno. I've lost hope in King long time ago. It could be decent, and I hope it is, but after so much filler, meaningless, boring arcs and overall futility of majority of his run wasting one good set-up after another, I doubt. Look how Gotham Girl was wasted in the recent crossover with Flash, despite having really solid introduction and potential to be a deep, important, conflicted character. I expect something as generic as Thomas being killed by Bane and Bats understanding the world needs him.

Haha I would be totally fine with Bane killing Thomas, since I hate that guy. I rather hope we don’t get some dramatic reunion between son& father. Overall it makes no sense to me, that Thomas is even there. There is zero explanation.

exactly! we've been wondering how Thomas is there or why he'd be helping Bane against his own son. King probably just threw that in there as a mystery box, and now has no idea what to do with it. the whole scenario is just dumb beyond dumb.

“I owe you for all the fun”, it was an odd comment, I agree. But other than that I think the whole scene was pretty good.

i didn't like it since there is no evidence that links anything going on to any of the characters...his evidence and "detective work" was all in his nightmares. It's like dreaming your buddy stole your wallet and waking up and punching him for it. When will we see Batman do some actual detective work????

But see? The whole issue is written just to be a reverse of the I Am Bane issue. King only writes to be clever. There is nothing like a straight forward story from him. See Omega Men; the second half of the series is a mirror version of the first 6 issues. And the story is essentially pointless because the freedom fighters become the terrorists. But he sure wrote a 12 issue miniseries...

So it’s not just me who saw the repetitive structure. Cool, cool, cool.

not only is it reverse I am Bane, but that was a reverse ripoff Knightfall...so this is just Knightfall!!! Boring, repetitive and ripoff

I just gotta say first that Batman never punched Solomon Grundy in this issue, that's why Bats was laughing. You can tell me he punched Grundy... but can you show me? Hahahahahaha

Hint, it involves ducking.

That’s true.

What's hard to understand? How king tried to explain things in an info dump that's inconsistent with first 7 issues and showed we were idiots for thinking it was a mystery with clues to play along with?

It’s hard to understand bad writing. It’s apparently hard for King to understand how computers work as well.

Has no ideas how computers work is right!

Or how to remember how lagoon boy died

Yup, it’s hard tho comprehend The greatness of Tom King’s writing. The depth of it and of his characters.

Guys I think I found Tom Kings burner account!

Nah, pretty sir they are just a troll.

Sure

Lol?!?! Depth????? Lololol

More like the depths he sinks to try to shock readers

I am giving it a like. For the sheer gall in his statement.

I wouldnt give it a 8, but this issue made sense for me.

i wonder who the parent account belong's to? the way they were review bombing that Spiderman story.

While I'm pretty sure this is a troll, you wouldn't believe the number of people that actually think they're smarter than others for liking Tom King

YourGreenMuse - how terribly ironic.

I'm not a troll and I don't think that I'm in someway smarter than you. Cheers.

Andrea D’Alò - you're not the one making numerous profiles, are you?

no, I am not making numerous profiles and I don't know why NoName is not answering.

i'm not sure. i could be wrong, but i read it as he was implying that towards the person making numerous accounts. at least that how i read it.

I think just because people like something others don’t, doesn’t mean he/ she made a fake account. This is a story you either hate or love it seems.

Darkseid24 - the admin of this site specifically called out this NoName97 person for making multiple profiles and review bombing. - - https://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/marvel-comics/spider-man-life-story/2

I see. Didn’t know that.

and knowing is half the battle. (GGGGGGGGGGG. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII. JOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEE!) sorry. the opportunity to use that quote was just way too tempting. 😂😂😂😂

Whatever you are quoting I don’t know it anyway 😂

What? How do you not know GI Joe?

Darkseid24 - check this short video out. >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFthiZ_Jftc

Thanks, never watched that lol

you're welcome :)

No, I’m not a troll and I love King.

Eisner nominated writer :).

Yeah, he's overrated. And I think this event is the one where most people realize that. But not you.

I listened to an interview of King talking about HIC& it made a lot of sense, so in the end HIC is ok for me, but I’m worried about Batman run.

it made a lot of sense. please do elaborate.

You shouldn’t have to listen to the writer explain the story on a podcast for it to make sense. If it doesn’t make sense on the page then it is crap writing.

I understood it before, but it was still interesting to hear, what King had to say. Didn’t sound like he hates Wally. I agree with him, that it would be wrong to just forget about his trauma.

He could have felt with his trauma without turning him to a bad guy.

True, but I don’t think Wally is a villain. It was an accident

That's not what made him a villain. It's what he did afterwards.

@darkseid24 what exactly did king say is Wally’s trauma? He really skirts around the issue of how Wally got to rebirth and what he has been doing since. What is the trauma that king explains is and has happened?

I think what messed Wally up was the fact that Linda didn't know him and their children didn't exist.

i still don't think that'd be enough to drive Wally to try to cover up that he was responsible for his friend's deaths, or frame Booster Gold for murder. the entire premise is forced and silly.

@DC Stuff read Flash War. That explains it. He was also on the Titans for the first 18 issues of the most recent run.

Yeah, Wally’s actions after the accident are what make him a villain. Not the accident itself. King destroyed a hero to fit his narrative that there is no hope by killing Rebirths symbol of it.

Whatever the case, I hope that writers will stop referring to HiC in their books and maybe someone, in the future, will write this thing out of continuity. Maybe when Doomsday Clock wraps up it will happen.

That is what a lot of people are hoping.

I think Doomsday Clock will have little to no impact on the DCU.

King was referring to his trauma of loosing everything thanks to Barry, but I also think the reason, why Wally broke was, because everyone else payed no attention to his trauma. Especially because it’s not the same. Bruce, Superman, WW, Barry haven’t lost everything, so it’s disrespectful to act like they did. I also don’t think what he did afterwards is worse than killing people. He was quite emotional there& as long as he doesn’t kill again he’s not a villain. I also think Doomsday Clock won’t

have any impact, especially because King said in his interview Barry is responsible for New52, while Doomsday Clock had the intention to blame Dr. Manhatten for it. It was also delayed again for like 2-3 months. Newest issue will be released end of May.

You don’t think that his going around and mutilating and staging the bodies of his “friends” to frame two innocent people is worse than accidentally losing control, no matter how much bullshit that was, and killing people? Seriously? How do you not see how those are the actions of a villain?

King can say that his fairy godmother was responsible for the New52, he’s not in a position to make any definitive calls for the greater DC universe. Until Dido, Lee, or preferably Johns make that definitive call, it’s all supposition. Snyder seems to have a large say these days too. With how crappy DC is doing right now, they should definitely use DDC to reset things. Again.

i've not been the biggest fan of Doomsday Clock, but i can appreciate it a lot more than HiC. i really hope DDC will actually reset all this nonsense that has been polluting the DCU as of late.

I’m a fan of DDC but it’s had some pacing issues outside of the ridiculous delays. My biggest complaint is that they shouldn’t have started Rebirth with everything binging on DDC if they couldn’t produce it on time. Or he’ll, at least close to on time. These delays are putting it over a year behind schedule I think? Ridiculous

Blaming other people for the murder makes Wally look like an ass, but killing his friends who trusted him is worse. However given the circumstances I think you can excuse both. Batman also once abandoned his lover in prison, framing her for murder, while he ran free instead of helping her in Bruce Wayne Fugitive. Again heroes aren’t perfect, they are flawed as well. I also think King has more to say these days in DC than Johns. I don’t want any of the two have a word in this. Both ruined

characters. However Didio allows King to do whatever he wants. And I don’t want another reboot as it was originally hinted with Doomsday Clock.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree here. I think accidental killings are bad but the lengths he went to to cover them up are the actions of a bad guy and I don’t see how that can be overcome. Batman leaving Sasha in prison while he solved Vespers murder was shitty but it wasn’t even in the same ballpark as what King had Wally do. Other than Batman and this travesty, I don’t know that King has had any real influence in the DCU. If anything, most writers seem to actively ignore the shit he

Writes. That’s why you rarely see his stories references anywhere else.

I guess we have. Both is bad, but trying to cover it up didn’t kill anyone& he’s not a villain, because he immediately regretted it. Otherwise he wouldn’t have killed himself& send it to Lois. Batman didn’t kill anyone that’s true, but it was an asshole move, just like Wally, but Wally was traumatized, while Batman just wanted to move on. He also didn’t leave Sasha to solve the murder, he left her to kill off Bruce Wayne& to just be Batman. Kings stories have a lot of influence.

There are references in Red Hood, Batgirl, Titans, Nightwing, Catwoman. If anything Detective Comics doesnt get referenced, but Kings Batman run& HIC definitely get.

It sucks, but King has a lot to say in DC currently. I however also don’t want Johns back. He ruined my favorite characters after all.

Again, you’re equating mutilating the bodies of his friends and framing two innocent people with being an asshole? Hell, there are serial killers who’ve regretted their actions initially. King has been around for 70 issues now and has not been referenced much at all. He’s had some references in a couple of Bat related books but nothing like you’d think. Even HiC has only been referenced a couple of times. I think you’re highly overestimating his influence.

He wrote a message in his victims blood. That is deliberate and psychopathic behavior.

If you don't agree with Talon1load you're a troll. Same stuff I've come to know and avoid from them on CBR forums.

Actually, your comment here is kind of trolling. Sooooo

Instead of attacking me, why don’t you talk about this issue like we are.

It’s of course an asshole behavior, but nothing most people wouldn’t do. I thought it was worse what Green Lantern did in Cosmic Oddysey, since he killed billions of innocent out of mere stupidity& arrogance. He still was redeemed& so will be Wally. Wally has an excuse at least. And you are underestimating his influence. His stories get referenced in so many books I already told you. While Detective Comics doesn’t. According to interviews his City of Bane will also tie in Years of the villains,

which is DCs Next big event. DC also wouldn’t allow a writer to write a story like HIC, if said writer doesn’t have their trust& influence.

"If you don't agree with Talon1load you're a troll. Same stuff I've come to know and avoid from them on CBR forums." UHMMM. NO.

Last weeks review is the first that I recall ever interacting with Andrea and he was definitely trolling. Either way, why not actually talk to merits of the book?

Not going to say more than this but it's common for you, Talon, to reply to a reader's comment about enjoying a book by calling them a troll or saying they must mean it sarcastically. Then you always follow up with "don't talk about me, talk about the book" which disregards the fact that you made it personal in the first place. Nobody should have to defend their appreciation for a comic book to you. No offense intended. Just tired of it.

You do use the troll thing quite often, Talon1load.

i'd still like to know who the main account of NoName97 belongs to. i'd imagine they were doing quite a bit of review bombing to get called out by the site's admin.

I’ve called Andrea a troll twice but he was literally trolling. Other than that, I’ve questioned if people who give 10/10’s for books that are crap according to most other reviewers. Perhaps I’ve been wrong but I don’t think so. You mention me making it personal, I call them troll when they come to argue without providing anything of substance regarding the book. Andrea literally argued with me about his inability to understand proper English. He was trolling. But, I’ll try to stop calling peopl

People trolls.

I don’t think someone is a troll just because he disagrees with most reviews. Otherwise I also would be one with Nightwing. People have different taste. That’s it, but giving Batman 68 10/10, I also question that lol

For me HiC is a 10/10 because King talks about humanity and the sense of loss though superheroes, and for other reasons of course. For me Batman 68 in a 10/10 because King talks about love, to be loved and to love in a Batman story, re-defining the character of Batman in a very coherent way.

Now, am I trolling?

I also wrote a few lines in my review, if you want to answer do it there, on MY review, ok?

If that's your reason, you need to consume more media. Because neither of those issues are groundbreaking like you seem to believe.

Thank you, Andrea. Both issues were excellent and it's messed up that one has to defend what they're enjoying.

i still would like to know who this burner account belongs to.

Your opinion isn’t what makes you a troll. The stupid incessant arguing you did last week about the way a review was written does.

Ok.

Batman 68 was a waste, HIC 8 was ok, but nothing groundbreaking or deep character exploration. I mean how? The way the fear gas reacted made zero sense& so did Bruce’s „nightmares“. They didn’t fit his character at all. Writing characters out of character isn’t groundbreaking, it’s just bad writing.