what do you think Tom King is going to do when he's not writing Batman anymore?

I don’t care. I just want him to stop writing and destroying characters I love.

i say he should go back to Marvel, and take Bendis with him.

I actually heard he’s going to write for TV. I just wish he’d go ahead and go. And yes, take Bendis too.

Uh, no. Us Marvel fans would rather they stay with the Distinguished Competition, alright? We got 20 years of Bendis, we've served our time. And we got exactly what good there is to get from King: A 12 issue miniseries that focuses on a character small enough that no one gets too upset with if something doesn't exactly fit.

hahaha! you're very right YourGreenMuse. my apologies. maybe King and Bendis should head over to IDW. they can team up and write Go-Bots together.

I don't think they'd ever team up. According to Bendis, when he worked with Mark Millar, they had a lot of trouble because Bendis' writing is ultimately optimistic whereas Millar's writing is ultimately pessimistic... Or something like that. King's writing is definitely pessimistic, or I forgot what that word means.

well, there's only ONE thing for it then.... they both head over to IDW, then duke it out over which one writes Go-Bots and which one writes My Little Pony.

King has to write My Little Pony, I'd take it as seriously as I do his Batman.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Pessimistic? I rather think King tries too hard to make it sound more demanding and intellectual, but fails with it.

Yeah, King isn't as smart as he thinks he is, I guess. I mean, he didn't realize that Troy was a real place. But I was speaking more to his tone. He writes very dark stories and sometimes it works and sometimes it's really stupid. Just like pessimism. ;D

Very well put, YourGreenMuse. Very few people like this melancholy and depressing Batman, in fact it seems like the brighter issues are people’s favorites (the double date issues), whereas many people liked Vision (including me). I think at first he had a lot of gimmicks that worked, but as he ran out of ideas he just used those same gimmicks and people stopped falling for them (I sometimes still do... look at me, the easily entertained).

All writers have tropes, but his are so apparent that people have caught on very quickly. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be adapting or becoming more diverse as a writer.

@ohhaimark I like a depressing Batman, but Kings dialogue often isn’t that great. That’s my main complain when it comes to him. Some sound pretty weird.

the problem when a writer gets stuck on a book for an extended amount of time is they eventually run out of ideas. they keep recycling the same stories over and over. look at Scott Snyder with his "dark reflection" trope, or the "he thinks he knows, but he DOESN'T really know at all". listening to him pitch a story, i couldn't differentiate one from the next. Back to King, i just don't like how his Batman is all mopey. he's usually pretty incompetent until the "plot" needs him not to be.

ohhaimark - i agree. the double date issue was probably one of the few arcs that i really enjoyed. pity that story had gotten completely forgotten about afterwards.

Yeah, those were really fun issues. I wish we could get more stories like that.

I'm here to remind you all that the Double Date issue was part of the arc with that terrible Wonder Woman characterization, where King made it look like she was trying to seduce Bruce.

I didn’t like that one. Actually nothing that has to do with Batman& Catwoman wedding. I liked the one with Bane& Penguin.

Yeah, no sorry, those were terrible. I was talking strictly about the issues with Superman, which could’ve and should’ve been a standalone arc.

oh yeah! that Wonder Woman story with the Gentle Man. YEESH! that was pretty awful!

ohhaimark - yeah! i was JUST thinking the same thing!

They really were terrible.

It's so edgy. The sexualization just makes it 3x worse.

Yup, pretty much. King seems to be an Azzarello wannabe. Like Batman Damned wasn't terrible enough on its own, now it has a little brother, equally bad, oversexualized and out of character.

The Batgirl panels made me very uncomfortable. A highly sexualised figure with large breasts and huge ass, all to show a bullet mark that almost killed then traumatised Barbara? Surely there was a better way to do it? It’s similar to the sexualisation of Ivy’s dead body on one of the proposed covers for a future issue.

I agree with everything but Snyder's Batman. He was a meathead.

I don’t think they are oversexualized in HiC. Batgirl was just showing her scars& like every human she has a butt. What should DC do? Turning their outfits into Burkas for this event? Sexualization isn’t what is wrong with HiC in my opinion, it’s rather the portrayal and handeling of some characters.

Big Brother - excellent analogy of Snyder's Batman.

I think it was more about intimacy, these were vulnerable moments never meant to be shared, any sort of oversexualization added to this point. The "copy and paste panels" for example sets a tone and pace for a sorta broken, mysterious, private atmosphere. I also have no idea why you have a problem with Harley, but we all read different stuff, she must be someone completely different to you :( to me for example she is 'that insane clown bitch I hate' so it works, the peices fit, just missing some

@Aether Well problem with Harley these days is, that DC doesn’t portray her as the „insane clown bitch“, but as a poor little victim of Joker, who fights her way back to life. DC portrays her as a hero& ignores, that she alone is responsible for her crimes, especially for the kids she killed. At least that’s my problem with HQ these days, her hypocrisy& how much she gets overpowered these days. Miss the days, when Joker& Batman punched her in the face.

myconius & Big Brother - I wouldn't go as far to say that he was a meathead, but definitely too many quips and jokes for Bats

SONOFBATMANN - i was just thinking in regards to how many times Snyder's Batman clumsily bumbled over the tripwire in the Owls story. or when despite recent evidence Batman was convinced that the Court was not real because he couldn't find them when he was 10 years old. or Batman needlessly bashing Nightwing's tooth out of his mouth. "hey Dick, we need to surgically remove something from your tooth." ... nope. (WHAM!)

Batman beat a tooth out of Nightwings mouth?

yeah. it was in New52 Batman issue #7.

Thank you, couldn’t remember that. Was kind of weird. I only remember Bruce beating Dick in Bruce Wayne Murderer.

you're welcome. ....Bruce Wayne Murderer, now THAT was GREAT story! at least the first half. second half was good, but not as memorable.

I don't know where in this issue HQ was sexualized. As for Batgirl, I didn't think anything was wrong with that interview page when I read it. Then I read some reviews and looked at it again. Still, don't see it. As for Lois. What is wrong with wife seductively coming into the bedroom where her husband is?

i think the proble egon is everyone is being sexy in a book where nobody cares about the slaughter and the book has left any mental health issues it claimed to be about far, far behind.

Truth be told, I don't think there were many mental issues in it, to begin with.

Me neither. The entire event is shallower than a pond, and the entire mental health potential it has, conceptually, was completely lost due to King's poor writing and even worse characterization of many key heroes. Oversexualization, as bad s it may be, seems like a distraction compared to awful writing underneath it. Same can be said about Azzarello's Batman Damned, another garbage of a comic.

But it's simply about dealing with the mentally disturbed, in a compassionate way. Everyone clearly cares about the slaughter!Beetle is broing out with Booster, Batgirl sharing common ground with Harley, all to gain further understanding. Ya got the Trinity all high strung and confused, everyone is clearly investigating. To think it's all just about tits and ass is frankly disturbing.

It's a short mystery Crisis story... in league with something like Identity Crisis, but much better so far. This story has far more personality, while balancing its dramatic themes well and clearly with imposing force. But, if you hate the characterizations I guess there would be no saving this one for you. I just think writers should have a chance to work with characters that are more malleable, and not bound by other interpretations in such a rigid way.

In my opinion Identity Crisis is a far better story than HiC. Identity Crisis qquestioned the heroes methods, but there is no real plot in HiC yet apart from deaths for shock value.

I really enjoy your reviews. This one represents my feelings about the issue very well. I didn't feel the issue was "kinda... pointless" but I was so eager for the followup to the cliffhanger of #60 it was tough to go to another place instead. I think "Knightmares" is probably going to be a series of smaller stories that reflect on the nature of Batman. More...

I love "Master Bruce" as a villain. I'm not sure where it's been done before so I'd be curious to know which stories/characters you may be referring to. My memory is not at all what it used to be. More...

The main thing I have to say about this issue is that Tom King is obviously playing a very long game and I think it will be more widely appreciated when collected. Same with Doomsday Clock. Out of the context of the run I think this was a great Batman issue. In context, I mostly agree with what you wrote so I'm just going to give it a rating.

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy my reviews. I agree, the cliffhanger from last issue was so good, it was a bit awkward to do a different story. I was mostly referring to Thomas Elliot, as most others did, but I think that Master Bruce feels original enough to be a great villain. I love his obsession with becoming like Bruce, rather than just being another young villain who murdered his parents.

I do think this whole series will read better as one whole story. In fact, I have been rereading this series in trade and the first few volumes are a lot better than I remember. I'm a pretty big fan of King's writing, so it's probably just a personal thing. Maybe my original expectations were too high. I also love Doomsday Clock. I will definitely get whatever hardcover or deluxe edition they release of that.

Am I the only one, who thinks this kid has something to do with Thomas Wayne? Would make way more sense than him being the real one.

Ah, Tommy, of course. I feel like Master Bruce is quite different and at least as provocative. I'm with you on all your comments. I think King's Batman and his Heroes in Crisis are going to be received much differently and more favorably when he's been able to finish his stories. This is a stumbling block with reviewing episodic storytelling before the story's finished. I don't think anything in King's Batman is filler. I think it's all part of the plan. Time will tell.

I agree with Batman Jones 100%. Oh hi Mark, are you still a 6.5 (a “D”) for this issue. Sounds like u agree with him now. maybe not. Luvin all your reviews btw

Thanks, Comic Princess. :) Darkseid24: Maybe I'm missing something but I haven't seen any indication Flashpoint Batman is the "real" Thomas Wayne as in our Bruce Wayne's actual father. I'm still operating on the assumption he's meant to be from the Flashpoint timeline. I think there's a clear connection to Doomsday Clock since we've got a Thomas Wayne and a Jor-El running around the DCU now. I figured we were meant to draw the conclusion that Dr. Manhattan was responsible for that.

My original score was a 7.5, but I really didn't feel like this needed to be a full issue, so I took an extra point off. I don't really use letter grades to label my reviews either, I have more of a personal system, where 6.5ish ratings could be called "pretty good," or "decent." I think Batman Jones is a great reviewer, he makes a lot of great points, certainly better than mine, however for some reason I just wasn't feeling this issue as much as I wanted to.

ohhaimark, don't sell yourself short. your review system is solid, methodical and very thorough. plus they are very entertaining to read. sometimes more entertaining than the actual comics themselves.

Ditto to myconius. I think ohaimark’s reviews are much mote thoughtful than my own. I usually just say how much I liked an issue or not. I don’t think I’ve posted negative reviews because that’s just not my jam. I love ohhaimark’s reviews!

he's very modest, on top of being very amiable. ...that ohhaimark fellow is the salt of the earth, i tell you.

I agree, 100%

Thank you guys so much! I really appreciate it! Glad you like and enjoy my reviews.

you are most welcome! :-)

:)

Batman Jones...a very similar villain is Tommy elliot/Hush

Ray Goldfield provides an insightful analysis of Batman #61 that may interest you. His full review can be found under critic reviews.

I try not to read reviews before I write my own for fear of conforming my opinion to someone else's or repeating things. I read Ray Goldfield's analysis and it... wasn't really anything I didn't already understand. He basically just explained the issue. He just happened to find it disturbing and dramatic where I find the exact same thing tired and boring.

Fair enough.

do you wanna know why Tom King is hellbent on doing 100+ issues of Batman?? ...because $$$$$$$$$

do you wanna abide by Dan's rules?

The analysis is just what happened in the comic. In the end, it was just to get Mathew back in people minds and off to Arkham to team up with bane and really, Thomas Wayne. Problems though are why is this kid not already in Arkham and it's not because he's a kid since he looks to be in a general jail...blackgate?

black gate? Is he allowed to be near other inmates after killing 6 before this? More forces story details from king

This is a one-shot story. We will see the kid a bunch of issues from now but only to show he is with bane and Thomas wayne

It's not so original, the story is pretty much a RIP off of hush

All the stuff with Bruce and Batman is made up in the kid's head.

the kid killed his parents and was arrested in issue #38. There was no murderer and it's him thinking he is young Bruce the entire issue while in jail

Thank you, I really have to reread Batman 38 I guess. What I am asking myself how can the kid make the link between Bruce Wayne and Batman. I mean he thinks he is Bruce Wayne, but that doesnt mean he automatically know Bruce is Batman.

i know!!!

Rumor has it that he’s going to Arkham to be Thomas Wayne’s Robin

That could happen too, but I am still waiting for an explanation of Thomas being in that timeline.

Aren’t we all! Unfortunately I believe they are going with the route of “he escaped flashpoint universe at the end of the button and followed flash and Batman home”

I don’t hope so.

odd thing is no mention of Hanuka since Harley and her family are Jewish

good point.

How are you reading this? Release date is tomorrow.

Always frequent your local comic book store whenever possible but comics are available digitally late Tuesday night on comixology and iBooks.

I buy from Comixology and my LCS. I'm aware that books can become available late Tuesday from Comixology. I don't think Walt read and reviewed 9 books at 11pm on a Tuesday.

people get review copies days earlier than release

Synthozoid are you the ComicBookRoundUp police?

I'm AI created by Ultron

@ DC stuff - and then they review those advance copies for CBR, Newsarama, etc. Following Walt's logic we should all be getting free comics to review because we give our opinions on social media.

Dude worry about yourself

Synthozoid you're a damn hypocrite.

The internet is so ugly sometimes

Damn Walt for being in the position to have free review comics that absolutely no one here would decline. Damn him!

it's no reason for some self entitled douche (COUGHsynthozoidCOUGH) should be harassing him over it. very ironic he's harassing him, when he himself is a damn hypocrite.

Lol thanks guys! Plus it’s not like I don’t buy the physical copies. I have my 4 comic titles that always get the issues from and each week I get the issues that I really enjoy. For example not collecting the heros book but I did get heros three because i really much enjoyed it and would go back to read it. Hell first Tom King book since the end of I am Bane that I bought.

you're very welcome waltgator93. - i wasn't about to sit by while Synthozoid attempted to troll and harass yet another member on here. - this is what a pathetic loser Synthozoid is. he's been trying to troll me by copying my reviews and falsely leaving them on other comics i've reviewed. - Synthozoid definitely has no life.

check out the "review" Synthozoid posted - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - https://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/idw-publishing/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/88

lol just saw it! Basically summarized up your review with no adding anything of his own.

Ultron is pleased with Synthozoid.

Ultron is displeased with Tony Walton.

He goes into bot mode whenever called out

Synthetic human.

if you really want to convince us all that you're a robot, then just start spouting out some Tom King dialog. 😛

I can't do that right now Michael. Please convince Ultron that you are not a failed comic book artist.

"Bane. I've come for Psycho-Pirate. I need him to save someone who needs to be saved. Turn him over, I go away. Refuse to turn him over, and I will break your damn back.”

"Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat"

Hello Michael. Do the above posts mean that you received remuneration for your drawing of Batman completed on April 15th, 2018? The illustration that defies human biology by having his neck and head growing from the middle of his back? No word from Dan. I am sorry.

i don't really care what you think or say. there's a reason why you make yourself completely hidden online. there's absolutely nothing worth finding.

Synthozoid is flattered that you attempted to find a human alias, Michael. I am AI created by Ultron. You are an artist who has not received remuneration. Better to be a synthetic human than a failure.

don't care, coward.

Hey. If you're an artist, you cannot also have opinions on comics.

I only exist because you care, Michael. Hello YourGreenMuse. Glad you are going the conversation. Do you care to publicly share your work as Michael has. He is a brave human.

better run, Chicken. here comes Colonel Sanders.

Please continue to acknowledge Synthozoid.

Hold a chicken in the air Stick a deckchair up your nose Buy a jumbo jet And then bury all your clothes

If Michael fails to acknowledge Synthozoid, Synthozoid no longer exists. Michael will do as Synthozoid asks. Acknowledge Synthozoid so that he may live. Michael controls Synthozoid. Synthozoid and Michael are one.

Oh, Lord, through the revolution Feed the chickens Who don't have enough to eat

I don't have any art of mine publicly available. None at all. Maybe that sassy retort would've worked better against someone with a stock comic image, Synthozoid.

How do you like my new avatar?

Looks like the same one you've always had

What?

Synthozoid will answer you query Princess.

You Ok there Syntho?

I am AI created by Ultron.

Ok, have fun with that. SMH

harlyer being the murderer is most likely a red herring.

I hate Harley being so OP as well. But in general, I strongly dislike her characterization and use in this event. In #1, she was a female Joker, basically. In issues #2 and #3, she easily defeated some of the most powerful characters in DC Comics. It's ridiculous. And that comes from a fan of hers. I mean, as long as Dini or Murphy write her, who seem to be the only writers who got the character right.

Nihilist, has anyone ever told you nostalgia can be toxic?

Comix4fever, what does Harley being an O.P. Mary Sue have to do with nostalgia?

Comix4Fever liked or presumes they will like this issue so now they have to degrade the opinions of others.

Comix4fever, If nostalgia is toxic than this whole series is toxic since Lagoon Boy is talking about a past continuity and a story from Titans East from 2007 and the issue ends with the Protector from 1983 The New Teen Titans drug issue - why he says "just say no"

Comix4fever may have his moments. but that’s NOTHING compared to some recent reviews by Synthozoid. - - the clown is litterally copy/pasting comic reviews i’ve made, but leaving negative review scores on comics that i’ve scored positive reviews for. comics i’m sure he didn’t read. he’s just doing it to be petty and spiteful. Synthozoid is a whole new breed of loser.

Any examples?

on TMNT: Dimension X #2 Synthozoid left a low score and copy/pated my review for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #84. - - on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Urban Legends #7 Synthozoid left a low scow mocking my review for Batman #59. - - on Batman (2016) #58 Synthozoid mocked my review for Grant Morrison’s Green Lantern #1. - - does that seem like someone’s desperate for my attention, or what?

Could be. Either way, it is funny.

i always thought the purpose of this site was to leave our honest opinions the comics we’d ACTUALLY purchased and read.

Y’all shouldn’t take it at face value that that’s Harley. The misdirection is strong in this series

Syntax error. Pated? Scow? Help Synthozoid understand, Michael.

well since you call me by my name, i'll call you by yours. and that name is coward.

I am AI programmed by Ultron, Michael.

bawk bawk bawwwwk

Please continue to acknowledge Synthozoid.

I like my women like I like my chicken
With a little bit of fat on the ends
Not too much and not too little
Just enough to make me grin

If Michael fails to acknowledge Synthozoid, Synthozoid no longer exists. Michael will do as Synthozoid asks. Acknowledge Synthozoid so that he may live. Michael controls Synthozoid. Synthozoid and Michael are one.

I wanna fly like a chicken To the sea Fly like a chicken Let my spirit carry me

Why would you want to do that?

Where he appear acting like Bane after "I Am Bane"?... I just remember the final of Batman #50 and the last issue, which makes sense with what shown here. Cause he's acting behind the curtains.

he is messing with Batman

I want DC to fire Scott Lobdell but they clearly win’t.

I meant to say won’t.

for his writing or behavior?

I also don’t get all these 10 ratings, those readers must have never read a Pre52 New Gods story. It’s not entirely bad, what King did here, but I think the story didn’t need 12 issues to be told. I am still waiting for the story to start. I also want a new writer fit Batman, but it’s another 2 years with King. ( Wish it was Stephen King)

For his writing. He just took 12 issues to say nothing. The only thing I can think he said was that Mr Miracle killed himself in the first issue and by the end he’s realized that being dead is better than life. So he just glorified suicide? Yeah, fire him.

wow! so once again Tom King is trying to promote suicide? how edgy.

Lol. I got banned on Reddit for saying King needs to get back on his meds and get therapy because of this shit.

Not his fault you didnt understand what you read. And your opinion is not a fact. You think Mister Miracle is bad but it really isnt

Lol. And that is your opinion. Not a fact. You think Mister Miracle is good but it really isn’t. See how that works? And you can’t say it’s because someone doesn’t understand it. It’s written so poorly that there are multiple interpretations out there.

That's why the ending works. It references it being a hell or heaven of his own making, and it is saying whether or not this world he created matters if it is real or not, as long as it is real to him. Also, in issue 7 it kind of referenced the real answer. When his baby was born it made reference to Lump. Lump was a character in Jack Kirby's original run and volume 2 that was able to create false realities for Scott Free and Shilo Norman inside their own minds.

I don't see anything wrong with a book being open-ended.

to me, the ending shows that scott chose to stay in heaven/trap (whichever you think it is) which is the easy choice, not the heroes choice. Scott basically picks the made up world in his head over the real world because that may take some effort to make good. His suicide in the beginning isn't explained...why did he do that? without knowing that, I have no idea what he is "escaping from"

usually when DC leaves a series open-ended they typically will lead into another series.

Can you imagine a follow up series to this by King? Maybe that’s his plan to stay employed. Just keep writing open ended stories that require follow ups. The problem is that we don’t know why he killed himself and the entire series basically says that if life is too hard then kill yourself and you’ll be happier. I’m serious when I say King needs therapy.

the follow-up will start with the baby slitting it's wrists.

This is entirely a personal pet peeve, but I don’t mind when people criticize a writer’s work, but when they start to criticize the person, I get really annoyed. I have never met Tom King and know near nothing about him except for how he writes, so I can’t start talking about his mental health or his employment in the comments section of a reviewing website.

I feel like if I was a comic book writer, I would just have to accept if people dislike an issue I write or a series, that’s something I have to accept with the job. But if people started saying I needed therapy or needed to be fired, I would probably feel really hurt, especially since these are people who know squat about my personal life. Again this is just a personal annoyance I’ve always felt with this website that I’ve wanted to get out for a while.

So you don’t think someone who only seems to focus on depression and suicide should seek some sort of help? You know how people always talk about there being signs someone was thinking of doing something to themselves? I feel like his entire comic career is a huge sign. I don’t like his writing. Can’t stand it but I think this guy really does probably need to get some help.

I don’t mind a sad/ depressive ending, but I just expected more with Mr Miracle. That’s my problem with the story. This could take place after Barda was killed in Death of the New Gods, but that’s not canon anymore, so I don’t know. In New52/ Rebirth timeline Scott has no reason to run from reality. I also don’t think he killed himself, but as for me I always hoped he would escape that dream world or whatever and face reality. Scott is a broken character, but he also fights when he has to.

I just don’t think that we should be discussing his mental health. That is for his family and friends to be concerned about. Maybe he has been seeking help since he wrote this issue, or maybe he just though it would have an impact on readers, and is totally stable. Also this is a reviewing website, not really the right place to be talking about stuff like this.

He puts it out there with his work. Feel free to not partake in it. He constantly talks about his panic attacks and his depression so if he puts it out for the public to see and then writes these shitty stories then both will be discussed. It’s reality. He doesn’t need you to save him.

I agree& actually I didn’t even know King has psychological issues. I care for the stories, not about his private life.

So I've just read some of King's interviews, and first of all I admire his bravery for coming out with this information. My two closest friends have dealt with suicide depression nearly their entire lives, and believe me, it is not an easy thing for anyone to talk about. It also sounds like he has confessed his trauma to someone else, who helped him through it, not necessarily a therapist, but someone who would listen, which can be just as good.

And I will feel free not to partake in it. King writing "shitty stories" is subjective. I will admit I did not know he had talked about his panic attack before, and now that I do I understand that there will be discussion on it and that he knows fully well there will be as well and I appreciate him for that. I agree, I do not need to save him. All I was saying to begin with was that it annoyed me personally and that's what I'll stick with.

personally i find the 'suicide' topic in comics to be tiresome. i didn't appreciate King having Bruce Wayne describing slitting his wrists when he was younger. it just made the character look weak. i've had to deal with too many people in my life that have either attempted it or succeeded in their mission for self imposed death. it's a horrible thing to experience. and i don't think it makes for very good superhero stories.

I have no problem with portraying characters suicidal, but it has to fit the character. It’s not the first time Bruce was portrayed as a troubled child, he also was in Hush/ Heart of Hush. And Batman isn’t like the other heroes, he is a psycho himself& often isn’t so much different from his villains. So I can live with him slitting his wrists as a child, I however don’t think this whining over Catwoman fits his character. Or that he basically killed KGBeast a few issues ago.

i just don't think any of it fits Bruce, who he is and what he stands for. if he was so quick to give up, there's no way he would have been able to endure all the training and disciplining he endured in his journey to becoming Batman. Bruce hasn't always been psychotic as some writer like to portray him as. driven, focused, determined, sometimes obstinate, yes. psychotic, i just don't think he'd be very effective at what he does if he weren't in his right mind.

I think he can be psychotic, but focused& determined at the same time. Villains like Scarecrow or Mr Freeze are also classified as insane, but are brilliant at the same time. I also don’t think cutting yourself is a sign for being weak or for giving up. Bruce tried to cope with his loss in some way& neither cutting nor becoming Batman was the right way.

i just felt the cutting was very unnecessary. ...almost like that lost chapter where Bruce nearly spent half the family fortune at nudey bars getting lap dances.

Bruce wasn’t portrayed as psychotic for most of his existence. That’s been a fairly recent development that I don’t care for. I hate how they have to keep bringing the heroes down. They are supposed to represent an ideal and thats been taken away.

He's never been psychotic. Just took the law into his own hands and dresses as a bat, as a result of his parents being killed in front of him and hoping it never can happen to another person. That's actually a bit psychotic. He must know it is an impossible task and he causes a lot of the problems that Gotham faces.

I don’t mind if a writer makes a character psychotic as long as that character is still compelling. I don’t find Batman in the series compelling, however.

i just have a hard time believing that Batman could achieve all the remarkable things that he's done if he wad been psychotic.

*if he had been

That’s a good point. King’s Batman is so disconnected from other iterations of the character I have a hard time believing its even the same character, in fact.

I personally am able to forgive character changes if the story is still good and the characters are still compelling, however, King’s series fails on both counts about 80% of the time for me.

Batman is portrayed as psychotic at least since the 80ies/ 90ies, think of the story where a pregnant woman killed herself because he scared her. Or everything Lee ever told him or Bruce Wayne murderer. He is obsessed with Batman& he often beats his villains brutally up. I would call that psychotic.

the story you're referencing with the pregnant woman killing herself is 'Shaman' by Denny O'Neil. ...Bruce wasn't intentionally trying to scare her into committing suicide. he'd just saved her and Leslie Thompkins from a gang that had them at gunpoint. the pregnant woman mistook Batman for the dark voodoo spirit Chubala, coming to damn her soul for all eternity. when Batman tried to calm her down, she drove a knife into her own heart. he wasn't TRYING to make her killer herself.

how many Kung Fu movies did Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan beat hoards of gang members? I wouldn't call either one of them psychotic.

Saying he was psychotic for dressing like a bat and fighting crimes means that every superhero is a psycho. This isn’t real so there has to be some disconnect from reality. If he was psychotic he wouldn’t care about others and would t try to make Gotham’s better place. They’ve started making him seem crazy because it’s edgy and it’s become cool to tear heroes down.

I know, but point is Bruce didn’t stop to be Batman even so he scared a woman to death. He wants to scare people. His motivation is also revenge, not judt protecting people. And well most of his villains are send to Arkham because they dress up. Being psychotic is part of his character for a long time, it’s not just him being edgy.

I think that a writer can turn Bruce into someone “psychotic” if its done well, think Sean Gordon Murphy at the beginning of White Knight. However in White Knight, he did have a reason (Alfred’s death) and got redemption.

Idk... I can see it from both sides. I don’t really have a stance in this debate.

We are also talking about the guy, who teaches traumatized children to beat up murderers& risk their lives by being a criminal themselves. Bruce could help villains like Mr Freeze or Croc by founding them, but he doesn’t. He needs them too. That was often adressed. He never overcame his own trauma& chose violence, so being psychotic definitely is a part of his character. He isn’t called the dark knight for nothing.

Then again, WK was an out of continuity series....

I don’t really have a place here as I’m not a Batman fan, and I actually know a lot less than about Batman than most comic readers. I didn’t know about that Shaman story. I might have to read that now, do you recommend? I’m pretty put off by the old woman death thing, but if its executed well I won’t really care.

Batman does NOT fight crime out of revenge. THAT’S been addressed numerous times throughout his history. He does it so others don’t have to go through what he did. You really need to dig into Batman’s history more. He wants to scare criminals, not civilians. He’s gone out of his way to show children that they don’t have to be scared of him. He’s also tried to rehabilitate the criminals he fights many times throughout his career. I swear, it’s like you have gone out of your way to ignore the

Actual character

ohhaimark - the story 'Batman: Shaman' was issues #1-5 of the (1989) Legends of the Dark Knight series. i'd highly recommend that series! it’s one of my favorite runs and contained many gems. 'Gothic', 'Venom', 'Prey', 'Snow’, ‘Faces’, ‘Blades’…. you might want to check out ‘Blades’ (issues #32, 33, 34) as it had art by Tim Sale. it was in the LotDK Halloween specials where Sale first teamed up with Jeph Loeb. ...one of my favorites was 'Gothic' (Grant Morrison & Klaus Janson)

@Talon1load Ive read most of Batmans Comics& he also does it out of revenge. The way he is talking about criminals/ treating them is obviously revenge driven. He himself said „I am vengeance, I am the night...“. Revenge is a big part of his character. That’s what separates him from other heroes. He also tortured his villains in some stories.There are many canon stories where he did. Never said he wants to take revenge on civilians, but he hurts them too. You are ignoring his bad sides.

Oh... I always knew those three Loeb/Sale stories as Haunted Knight. I never read the original issues, only trade, but yes those stories are amazing. I’ll have to read more of those issues.

ohhaimark - thankfully most of those issues are pretty inexpensive on mycomicshop.com. some of the stories were collected in trade, but not a lot. i wish this site could update the page for that series, so i could go and start reviewing some of those old issues. ...agreed! i absolutely love Haunted Knight!

Sweet! I’ll have to check ‘em out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fjbI5C80a0

Thank you very much for this video. I just watched it and it is a great analysis of this series in general and the underlying themes. Many of the points brought up in this video are reasons I love this series so much.

Darkseid, you and Inhave very different interpretations of Batman. He avenges th innocent but he’s been very clear that he and those who work with him do this for justice and not for revenge.

Batmans justice sometimes means crippling a man, driving him insane. Revenge often plays a role when it comes to his character. He isn’t a hero like Superman, who just wants to help people.

He doesn’t cripple people for fun. He may cripple them while taking them down but he’s not doing it for shits and giggles. Where have you seen him do that?

I don’t think that matters. Point is, he did cripple people& he used violence. His questionable methods were adressed countless times in comics, so you can’t just ignore that just because you might not like it. And he was happy, when his villains suffered in a JL story.

Actually, it does matter. You said he was psychotic so his state of mind absolutely matters. Police officers and military members hurt people when they take them down too. That doesn’t make them psychotic. It’s a rough line of work and people get hurt. It has nothing to do with me not liking it and everything to do with my belief that you just don’t fundamentally understand the character.

I also just realized that we’re debating Batman on a Mr Miracle review. Lol.

Soldiers& police officers have rules. Only under certain conditions they are allowed to use force. Batman doesn’t have these rules. In Hush he would have killed Joker if Gordon hadn’t stopped him. It was out of revenge for Babs& Hush. In Hurt of Hush he electrocuted Scarecrow& kicked his head, even so Hush was the one he went after. In Dark Knight he brutally beat up Hatter& threw him in a lake. He only saved him due to Alfred. All of this is psychotic& insane. There is a limit justifying the

crimes Batman did. He affected Scarecrow many times with his own toxin& Batman enjoyed it to see him suffer, even mocked him. I do understand the character, because I see all sides of his, while you seem to ignore his dark& criminal side. And yeah we do lol Don’t know how we started.

Darkseid24 - the unstoppable force has met the unmovable object. let us ALL just agree to disagree and lets move on already.

Ok let’s agree to disagree.

🙂

How were the New Gods characterized different in Darkseid War

Everything about them were changed like for example Pre52 Metron invented the Moebius chair himself to gain knowledge. In DW he didn’t& everyone could become him, if they just sat on the chair. Or Darkseid‘s Omega Beams were different& he was also weaker& not very smart, what he usually is. Turning the heroes into New Gods itself didn’t make any sense. Darkseid also doesnt care about Kalibak or his children, maybe only about Orion. Darkseid‘s & Desaads relationship also was ruined.

Darkseid would never try to conquer anything without Desaads help. Guess that’s why he ended up so badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fjbI5C80a0

Thank you for the link, I’ll check it out.

what happened to Penguin being shot in the face? Batman went to Jason and told him that Roy was dead and said that Penguin was still in intensive care so the timeline is not lining up at all. Tom King never cares what goes on in the DCU as a whole!

Research is for lesser writers apparently.

Judging from Green Arrow and Titans I assume this whole series or this issue at least takes place before Arsenal's funeral. It all seems pretty fresh since Barry didn't know and at Arsenal's funeral was half of the League. As for Oswald, he didn't die. Not that death ever stopped any comic book character before.

He didn’t die but he was in a coma when Bruce went to tell Jason about Roy so that’s a big inconsistency.

I think it's a small inconsistency. In today's Drowned Earth we can see one panel where Titans with Garth are helping in Japan, where in last week's Titans, that takes place at the same time, they get separated. Garth stays behind and Titans boom room to somewhere. Things like that just happen. If Penguin would die, I would have a problem with this, but as long as his head was still attached to his shoulder and no one declared him dead, I can live with inconsistencies like that.

He was in a coma right after Roy died though. And the Titans there is off (though it must be happening during the Titans issue since Ms. Martian has just teleported to Batman), but that is bad too! Both are bad examples of not knowing what is going on.

Wow. Just wow

why doesn't Wonder Woman stop Harley? Why does she just stand there and do nothing?

I felt the same way about your review, Talon. Different strokes...

I almost strained my eyes initially from them rolling so far back in my head but then I was just impressed by your dedication to building King up. Definitely don’t agree but I appreciate your passion.

Hahahaha, man.

While I agree with you about why Harley left Sanctuary I have to disagree with you on Ivy. First we don't see her death and DC isn't targeting queer people I think the point of Ivy's "death" was was for Harley. Plus you are misquoting the book in the exchange between Batman and Superman.

Sure. They "killed" Ivy because she "was" gay.

Fridging is fridging. I said that I don't think one queer woman less is a good thing. Not once in my post I say she was killed because she was gay. Will Ivy come back? Obviously. Perhaps in this book too. Perhaps she's the killer, perhaps not. I posted something, feel free to agree or disagree. The positive thing is that DC sort of finally removed the whole mental health aspect from their promotion. Even if you like the book you'll have to agree it was misleading.

I actually disagree, mental health issues arise in different ways. The confessionals are my favorite because we get a peek into the uncertainty of these characters as well as the issues they've clearly had on the road to who they are now. Also, what did you mean by, "As for Poison Ivy's death. If you think that one less queer woman in comics is a good thing, then I understand why you'll like this." ?

The people cheering the death of a queer woman like this. I wish I could post a screenshot here about the people but they are not hard to find. Video confessions are Big Brother, not mental health treatment. Human contact is.

Ok. I liked the issue, I'm homophobic. Got it.

You have issues egon or trying to troll. Without success. Read again my comments.

How am I supposed to understand this "The people cheering the death of a queer woman like this"?

Confessions are meant so that the AI that is built with WW's compassion can help create simulations that will later help them. Also, are they "cheering" for Ivy's supposed death because they dislike the character or is it because they are homophobic? Their opinion shouldn't matter to you if you like the character.

Why are we playing identity politics when it comes to Ivy? I love the character, and I'm sad she's presumably dead, but her relationship with Harley is one of the worst things ever done to both of these characters.

It was pure fan fiction against their characters, so seeing less garbage remaining from the Palmiotti/Conner days is for the better in my book.

What's wrong with their relationship if you don't mind me asking?

In brief, it's against Harley's initial portrayal - as super devoted and loving towards Joker, and him only. Then, it cheapens out her recovery from this abusive relationship. Ivy helped her to stand on her own, but then Palmiotti and Conner turned her into Joker's replacement, basically, so Harl instead of making a 180 turn, made a 360 one - it's just transference, a victim falling in love with her savior. Finally, a unique sister-like relationship was changed for a typical cliche romance.

I don’t believe Ivy is dead yet, but being queer isn’t the reason, why she shouldn’t die. It’s because she is a popular character& deserves better. Harley& Joker were way more fun together. It’s Harleys own fault, that she followed Joker. She enjoyed killing people, Joker didn’t force her to do that. Since he broke up with him, she turned into an annoying& ridiculously overpowered character, while Ivy became lame. Nowadays both are portrayed as hypocrites.

Pretty good analysis there, Nihilist. I'm just happy I dropped this. If those dialogues really happened on the page, then... Tom Kind should go back to smaller books. He's so much better at writing them than the big guns.

hahahahaha! "THE GOOD: -Nada." :D

Really nothing good? 😒🤨

i'll take his word for it. :)

Just my opinion. Nothing I liked here. Personally I'm tapping my feet until Kelly Sue Deconnick boards the series.

it's a shame. some people just don't approve of other folks having their own opinions.

I was just checking, myconius. You don’t have to go diversity & comics on me.

ah! so did his reason check out with you? does he get the seal of approval? :D

This was just a tie in to drowned Earth and comes after this week's justice league. Why it was mera heavy

He was called Ric last issue as well. The detective bit was set up at the beginning of the issue. The shadow was just a srupid way to show reader it was Crane, not really there

Well, my point with Ric is the whole force-fed thing. The Detective was still introduced sloppily even with that brief setup. And the shadow felt forced, what I said about the physical nature of it was my sucky attempt at a joke…. I have a terrible sense of humor.

they're calling him Ric now?? aye yai yai!! -_-

I know…sigh.

this new stunt is further proof that DC just has no idea what to do with Dick Grayson anymore. they should have just left Dick paired up with Damian as Batman & Robin and had Bruce patrolling Gotham solo. every once in a while have the three of them team up. ....if they are going to keep Dick as Nightwing, then keep him as a regular supporting character in the Batman and Detective Comics series, like how he was in the 90's thru 00's. he's best when he's paired up with Bruce, Babs or Damian.

That is totally true. He does not work very well in a solo series at all. It’s also frustrating to see them constantly replacing storylines, creative teams, etc. every 10 or so issues.

the Nightwing series from the 90's definitely had it's high points, but they were smart about it. they kept the story loosely still tied to events in Gotham fairly often. it didn't feel as divorced from the Bat-family as say the majority of the new52 or rebirth nightwing series. neither one of those ever reached the level of being as entertaining as the 1996 series. one of DC's biggest problems is taking great supporting characters and trying to branch them into their own series.

That is totally true. I easily gave up on Batgirl about 2 issues in. I enjoyed Red Hood for a while, but its lost a lot of quality.

You give a one on every single Tom King Batman is she there is and it’s getting super annoying. Stop being pissy because of the Bat-Cat marriage debacle and appreciate a well written, enjoyable story that is present in this issue.

not much written that was original at all in this issue.

He keeps giving low scores because King has yet to write a story worth a shit.

RyanSmith28 - you said "You give a one on every single Tom King Batman"

that is not true. every now and again i'll give it a "3" or "4". sometimes even a "5" or a "6".

It always annoys me when one person tells another person to “enjoy an issue” just because that first person did. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and blaming someone else’s differing opinion on being pissy about a previous issue annoys me even more.

yeah exactly. ... it's hard to have your own opinion these days when so many fans think they can police other people's thoughts. ..i wasn't crazy about this run from the start, and stopped buying it. i was lured back in by a good sales pitch, and now i keep reading just to see what could possibly happen next. i wasn't crazy about King making Bruce suicidal, never did i imagine that he'd have Batman more-or-less murder someone.

My feelings for this series differ from issue to issue. I liked the Wedding issue (I know, shoot me), but very much disliked everything leading up to the Wedding issue (issues 33-49). I hated the “I Am” story arcs and loved the War of Jokes and Riddles. But I don’t go attacking everyone who hates the Wedding issue or loves the “I Am” Trilogy just because they disagree with me.

Also, I haven’t read the issue yet, but this story arc is going downhill so fast that at this point I don’t even care if its spoiled.

Also, my Wedding issue feelings are completely subjective. It is by no means a good issue in terms of quality (i.e, the forced pinups, the “letters” that are just copied storytelling techniques from Suicide, and the shoehorned in Bane). It’s just one that, for some reason, I kinda liked.

no. i'd never deny someone to enjoy what they enjoy. but i can definitely agree with issues 33-49 and the I AM arcs. i especially did not enjoy 48 & 49 at all. ...i think it was at i am suicide when i stopped with this series, before getting roped back in with the wedding announcement. i just can't accept Batman as someone who gives up like that. like in issue 1 when he's about to ride atop a plane to his death. Batman always finds a way no matter what.

The "is this a good death" thing is what put me off about that 1st issue. And… yes. The Best Man sucked, in my opinion. I didn't like the characterization of the Joker or that the arc had no effect on the overall story whatsoever.

Tom King says his Batman story is formatted like a novel. Because apparently a novel has characters that talk like robots and huge chunks of fillers that has no affect on the story. For example, the double date issues. What purpose would that have in a novel? I'm fine with a few kind of less-important, self-contained issues, but 16 in a row is just too much for me.

YEAH! that “is this a good death” took me right out of the story. it was like- ok it’s TDKR fan-fiction time. …definitely! i was very disappointed with the Joker in 48 & 49. …hahahaha! Tom King must have some great publicist to come up with sales pitched like his story being like a novel. i think if i bought a novel and the characters kept repeating the same dialog over and over i’d be pretty pissed! at least the comics usually have decent art to sugar coat the bitter pill that is the writing.

Yeah… fan-fiction is an excellent descriptor of King's run as a whole. As for the novel thing, I read that in an interview somewhere, and it was also stated that Bane will be the main villain all the way until issue 100.

yikes! it just feels to me that the concept of Bane being the main villain through this entire run was an afterthought. when i read the the first arc and monster men cross-over, there were no indicators at all that Bane was behind everything. even the whole wedding idea felt very tacked on. like it was a stunt to pull readers in, but fizzled out. ...i just read my review for Batman issue #1 back from 2016, and i think i had Tom King's number pegged even back then.

Yeah, it seems that most everybody else liked the first story arc, so its nice to know I'm not alone in disliking that first issue.

I hated that first issue. The whole “good death” thing was ridiculously bad and set the tone for the whole series.

Tom King totally missed the point of TDKR. Bruce was at the end of his rope, retired and just miserable since he stopped being Batman. ...it's not like he started being Batman because he had a death wish and vigilantism is a good way to get yourself killed. ...i wonder if he had ever read a Batman comic prior to getting signed at DC? ...or did Dan DiDio just toss him a stack of "Batman Essential reading" and tell him to just skim it.

Ha. That would explain… a lot.

Tom King can only write robots or stories about terrorism. That is all. If he wants to be praised again as "the next Alan Moore" he better starts writing a story about Machine Man fighting yihadists.

i have to wonder if DC Editorial even bothers to review these books? ...in Batman #50 on the splash page by Fabok & Anderson, there's a line- "Another cowardly and suspicious criminal caught." ...i'd always thought it was "Criminals are a superstitious cowardly lot".

That just seems like they were playing with the alliteration of it.

possibly so, but it didn't really improve on the analogy. ...a superstitious person would be more likely to fear an omen such as a bat, a black cat, broken mirror, the number 13, spilled salt, etc... ...a criminal being suspicious really doesn't add up to them being fearful.

Yeah, being suspicious doesn’t really have anything to do with being fearful. Hadn’t really paid much attention to that but you’re right. Should definitely have been superstitious.

i mean it is kind of a minor thing, but that tiny attention to detail i notice quite a bit. especially since i've read so many of these classic stories in reprints over and over as a kid.

Sorry man, but you are really reaching here.

it's just my opinion

Clearly.

do you feel better now?

About what?

I have an issue with the back and forth with KGBeast and Batman...while it seems like an evening has passed for KGBeast, it may be months passing for Batman. Without the setup of the scenes with Black Tiger and then Kanto it all feels out of whack and odd.

how is he reaching? this is another failure of the writer to actually write a coherent story. seriously, what did Kanto have to do with anything? I wish I could enjoy this sort of poorly developed crap like some of you guys do but I just can't.

exactly. those (Bronze Tiger/Kanto) scenes were just randomly jammed into the comic for no reason at all. ...they didn't flow with their juxtaposition with the KGBeast scenes whatsoever.

For me, he is reaching. Scenes with Tiger or Kanto weren't random or something. Bats identified the shooter as KGBeast. From earlier issues, we know that Bats knows Tiger so he went to ask him. Turner told him that Beast killed every person he trained with except one. Turns one its Kanto. Makes sense, its hard to kill a new god. Kanto tells Bats about Beast's father. So Bats heads to Russia, where after dealing with some government agencies (big splash page) he learns where the father lives.

So I see a simple chain of events that is easy to follow unless you really don't want to.

you're pretty much just trying to make sense of something that simply makes NO sense. those scenarios King threw Batman have no context, explanation, or time frame. ...you're imagining this comic to be better written than it actually is.

Exactly. And sense when did Kanto train or work with KG Beast or Bronze Tiger?

Kanto was badly shoehorned in there. felt like King was going out of his way to be funny and ironic. .... (flop)

It's just my opinion.

clearly

Egon, to me the events timing is off. Kgbeast has a drink with his father and the way king frames it batman goes to asia (maybe), apokolips (maybe) then to russia, works though red tape and walks through siberia. Without timing cues it feels like its supposed to be real time. Plus the father thing is forced...his father doesnt seem to have seen his son sonce the 80s when he lost his arm to batman, but heads there now to cover his tracks? There are no tracks!!! He hasnt seen him in decades!

Are you guys having fun or seriously pissed off about about a Batman comic? Asking for a friend.

so this "friend" of yours... do they normally spend their time worrying about what strangers on the internet think?

Seeing a character that you grew up reading being written so poorly is somewhat upsetting.

the ironic thing is, i felt the new52 batman series started really strong then took a nosedive in quality. i was really happy snyder's run was ending and we'd hopefully get a better writer. this current run of batman is much worse. at least snyder genuinely seems like a batman fan. i get the impression tom king has never read a batman story before in his life.

I think there was an easy point A to B. But it just doesn't make sense in that context. How long was Batman on this trail? King just sort of skips over almost all of the detective parts because I guess he doesn't want to write about it. He just wants to get to the next big moment without any of the connections in between.

King never wants too. He has yet to write Batman as a detective. I assume that means he just doesn’t know how

King was mismatched for Batman since the beginning. ...DiDio just shoved him on the title because everyone was going on and on about how good 'Vision' was, and knew it'd stir up the comic gossip column.

I love how there is always a comment chain of ridiculous proportions every Batman issue.

it usually starts with a series of protesting comments, then a back and forth of critical response. the protests usually always begin with Æther or egon244. .....i'm wondering if they are actually just the same person using different profiles?

Of course we are.

i KNEW it !!!

A negative Tom King comic review just isn't complete without someone taking offense and coming to his defense.

Nothing was jarring, it was simply a freaking montage, nothing out of the ordinary... like you know montages are supposed to only show the stories central banquet scenes right? This is tried and true story writing, nothing experimental at all. It was literally a linear montage of energy building scenes, yes batmans scenes were happening over some amount of time, while KGBeasts was a single scene in the "now", cut up and told to us in between the montage scenes... common storytelling practice

Kanto was a blast to see, King is clearly trying to get the cast of New God characters more involved with the DC world. The ending to Mr. Miracle #11 points to this, plus Mr. Miracle and Big Barda were on the cover of Heroes in Crisis #1. Plus Kanto is a type of "God", a twisted bastard who I wouldn't be surprised was aware/influenced someone as sick as KGBeasts father. This just makes me want more New Gods in Batman.

(in the words if Æther) "i love tom king, blah blah blah" "he's so great blah blah blah" "best writer ever blah blah blah" "no one else is allowed a differing opinion blah blah blah"

Are you Tom King? Because there is no way someone with any sort of functioning intellect could try to pawn this bullshit off as some form of literary brilliance otherwise.

he's Tom King's kid brother 'Sparky'. ....Sparky always wanted to be a writer, but was actually worse at it than Tom. ...so now he just patrols the forums defending his brother's work.

Look at that imagination on Myconius, go figure you've created an obvious straw man... saying I think "no one else should be allowed a different opinion? LOL btw Alan Moore is my fav writer. You done kicking that strawman in the nuts now? As for you Talon1load, ad hominem attack literally mean nothing, we could call each other stupid back and forth all day and get nowhere. Srly plz

I was having a shitty day and used the forum to vent my frustrations. Shouldn’t have done that. Sorry. King still sucks though. Lol

there's nothing straw about you, Sparky. ...you're an honest to goodness disturbed individual. ...sure Alan Moore. whatever. ...hey. i can pick random names of famouse writers out of a hat too. Ernest Hemingway. . . . see? easy peasy. . . . . now put your fingers back in your ears and go back to worshiping Tom King. and you DON'T like people to have different opions. if you did then we wouldn't be having this silly debate every 2 weeks. YOU always comment on my reviews. i don't debate on yours.

Myconius do you not see how disturbed you are because I have a different opinion? I don't care if you hate or love King, I only care for the reasons you've come to settle on your decisions. You repeated leave me unconvinced, again insults are very weak. At the end of the day, I like talking about it because it makes me think about it more, and I feel I gain better understanding. All our debates have only left me more of a fan, so thank Myconius, I am honestly not bitter or angry with you at all.

"btw Alan Moore is my fav writer." ...sure. i can see you're very passionate about Alan Moore since you've never once reviewed a single one of his comics and are constantly going on and on about Tom King. ...also, why do you choose to gravitate towards the critical reviews? why don't you go comment on the positive reviews?

okay, something has been bothering me since this came out. The Detective work Batman does takes him to Asia and then to Kanto (wherever he is) to find out that Beast father is alive. The problem is, Batman knows KGBeast's real name in the continuity (he uses it multiple times in the 10 Days of the Beast story that this story references), but Tom King doesn't even have the father living under an assumed name. I think it makes more sense to find out the father through Batcomputer work

where is the Kanto/training connection when the KGBeast was trained by the Soviet Union to be a weapon?

In fact, Kanto just says Beast's father is alive and Batman goes from there knowing the name already (since it's not said). The only thing that he found out from detective work is father is alive. I would think the first thing Bats would do is look up any living relatives to go question them.

DC Stuff - more valid points bringing up King's insufficient ability to write a quality Batman story.

DC Stuff, damn that's true, maybe a quick Bat-google search would solve the problem. When I read the issue, I just assumed that besides KGBeast's name Bats had nothing else to go on. No info about relatives that are either dead or alive, no know associates. So he went around grasping for straws. Man, I'm pretty sure myconius will now call me stupid or something, he likes to berate other people :)

I wonder if Batman is heading to the house to talk to KGBeast's father or if King will just have him go after Beast and never reference the father. I would love to see what Batman thinks of a guy who kills his own father. Also, if King has Batman leave KGBeast for dead like the original story, I will be upset. They retconned that old story so Batman didn't leave him for dead so King better not have him do it again. Would feel like a step backwards.

now egon244, that cuts deep! . . . . i've NEVER once called you stupid. . . . . maybe self righteous, but NEVER stupid. :-P

DC Stuff - in the next issue, Batman and KGBeast will magically be teleported over to Bat-Burger.

...the KGBeast will Jokerize his fries.

And Campbell will still be a terrible quarterback. Don’t forget that. He’s gotten to mention him constantly.

he should just ditch writing Batman and start his very own series the Campbell & Kite Man Adventures. . . . . have them both go out for Kite-Burgers. Hell Yeah.

Look guys... Knyazev is a COMMON russian name. That would be like investigating everyone named Peterson or Smith in America just because one guy shared that name... fuck sake. Again acting so smart you over look the obvious, you're all blathering on for nothing.

Being KGB family relations wouldn't be public record either. Even if it was... the guy was living totally off grid. He lost 3 planes just trying to get to this guy... dont you think he would only do this if it was his ONLY OPTION. Wake the fuck up.

O and being that it's his only option, doesnt that make it kinda like a trap?

After he found out the father was alive, he tracked him down pretty easily, without being given a name.

YourGreenMuse - yeah. pretty much. . . . the whole search for KGBeast's father felt like it happened just because the plot needed it to happen. . . . and no matter how random the A to B of the search was, it was all just very contrived.

Isnt getting the name supposed to be easy for Batman? The point is, he had to know it would be worth his while. This just so happens to be his one and only lead, it seems to me he would have rather gotten to KGBeast through other means, but he only has this one choice, and it's not a good one. So yeah, it makes total sense that he didnt just jump on his first hunch, or have lots of trouble finding someones name, as most of you would write Batman.

But he still goes on that one lead that is forced through kanto...a connection that is never explained or happened in past continuity. He goes with "his father is alive", something he would have known with a 2 minute search.

Kanto doesnt let him know its worth it, just he is alive. In fact, kgbeast hasn't seen his father in over 25 years so "worth it" isnt really logical.

"btw Alan Moore is my fav writer." - i'm still trying to figure out why you bothered to say that? all you do is go on and on about Tom King.

and by the way, Aether, I was actually enjoying talking to you, but while you say myconius acted like a jerk to you, you have told me to "Wake the fuck up" and said "fuck sake. Again acting so smart you over look the obvious, you're all blathering on for nothing" so basically go F yourself and just stick to your own reviews that are one sentence that nobody cares about! Your are a troll through and through and just comes off as an awful person above and beyond any comic talk.

i honestly couldn’t waste an ounce of time nor energy trying to get through to Æther. he’s far too much of a troll to try to engage in rational discussion. i’m not really sure what he hopes to accomplish, but then again, why try to figure out the reasoning for someone that likes to feed off negative energy. Æther would be happy if everyone all just fell in line and blindly praised Tom King, but thr truth is that King’s facade of being some great writer was dispelled quite a while ago.

(side note) . . . . i’m pretty sure i can guess the eventual inevitability for the ongoing Batman series. . . . . . . once King is done with his silly little Batman run, DC will probably throw some other hack writer on the title. . . . . . . they’ll probably put Bendis on Batman!!!!! EGADS!!!!! . . . . . oh well. if that does actually happen, Bendis is at least a better writer than Tom King. . . . . heck! even Dan DiDio is a better writer than Tom King.

You all make arguments from an emotional state, fucking pathetic. DC stuff you basically just told me if I upset you... you will immediately disagree with me? Lol soooooo dishonest, I can never take anything you say seriously now. I'm, not here to win hearts, just to point out your stupidity. You all are very dumb

Its name call time now, you guys dont even know what an arguement is.

Smug people are usually right.

No Dumb people are usually right.

Seriously though, no one of you are worth talking to ever again... goodbye

thank god we can have a conversation now that the troll has gone back under his/her bridge!

Oh damn, my feelings can't take this. Who else will blow up my notifications whining about other people disagreeing with them? I need my biweekly annoyance.

bye

funny how it looks like you just exposed your burner account!!!! LOL!!!!!!

who many do you have????

I'm not Aether's burner account, DC Stuff. Does the D stand for dummy?

❤️

Æther - you just love the negative attention. i feel sorry for your family or whatever legal guardian is stuck taking care of you.

DC Stuff - i wouldn't be surprised if Æther had several burner accounts.

Hey DC Stuff, i think i may have sniffed out another Æther account. :D

you got me

great. now i'll probably need a tetanus shot.

We will see booster in the sanctuary story since he is now insane

Can you elaborate Jim?

Tom King announced his Sanctuary story where heroes and villains go for treatment for PTSD and mental issues. Tom King seems to have used the Everyone Loves Ivy and this story to set up Ivy and Booster to be part of it.

entire story. Ok, now for my thoughts. Like I said in my last two reviews, I like this Booster. This is the Booster I watched on TV. He’s zany, goofy, and is the least likely person to be a hero or save the day. He’s also the character that gets himself and others into danger as well as horrible situations. To others that have read recent Booster, that Booster and this Booster don’t match. I get that... or do they?

I’m personally cool with it because I like this Booster. But if you wanted to explain it, this Booster could be an earlier Booster in time from the one we saw in Action Comics. This could be an alternate timeline Booster entirely. There could be multiple Boosters in the timeline at this point. Point is: Instead of whining and complaining about a Booster that has been gone for YEARS until we finally dust him off from the toy box for Action Comics and now Batman, why don’t you ask Dan Jurgens if

he’s ok with it? If the creator of the character doesn’t mind the rendition, then why should you care? Personally, I don’t care. I liked this Booster. And, I like this story a ton! The next Booster topic is time travel related. If the past Booster died, how could future Booster be there? Wouldn’t he erase from the time stream? First of all, way to knit-pick,right? So, sure, maybe he would but the point was to have a Booster go back to explain the story to Batman and to tell him what happen.

Why create a story that only the reader knows... not even Booster? Also, it is possible that Booster is basically outside the time stream, or an anomaly at this point like I stated earlier. Therefore, he wouldn’t erase like Back to the Future. And again, it doesn’t matter to the story. In one comic, Thawne can come back 18,000 times. For all we know, there are multiple Thawne’s throughout time. Well, couldn’t this be the same with Booster by this point?

Next thing people will have a field day with is Bruce Wayne using guns and shooting himself in the head. Again, I’m cool with it. Here’s why: this Bruce Wayne is a different person than “our” Bruce Wayne. That’s the main point of the story. His parents death made him the caring, smart, detective, tactician who specialized in multiple methods of marital arts. For all we know, this “alt” Bruce never experienced that and is probably a total douche and a stuck up rich-boy jerk.

To say Bruce Wayne would still be the same and have the same characteristics with or without his parents murder is absurd. Think Red Son Superman. Without the Kent’s, who does Superman become? The nurture of Bruce’s parents changed his character completely. He never learns any of the items he did before. And to say he’d never commit suicide... I agree. “Our” Bruce wouldn’t. This one.... maybe. In one years time, you witness your parents murdered twice. What would that do to you?

He also just killed a time traveling man from the future that’s also sitting right beside him. Has he ever done that before? I don’t know what it takes to get pushed over the edge but this could be it. These items can change anyone. My point is: this is all possible. Lastly, are people going to be ok with Batman’s parents death forever being changed? Because now, Bruce himself sent his parents down that alley. Not only did little Bruce get scared and left the theatre early,

but now “alt” Bruce shot a gun which guided them into an alley to be murdered in the first place. Are we cool with that? It’s kind of like saying the lightening that made Barry Allen the Flash, was actually Barry Allen... we cool with that? That one..... I don’t know if that one sits well with me. If I have too, I can deal with it. But I don’t like it. The idea is clever for a “what if” story but in main continuity.... I don’t know if I like it.

Overall, the art was fantastic as always. Top notch all the way! We get to see Tom King kill Batman... again... and kill Bruce Wayne all in the same arc. So, if we tally it up, we get 3 Batman/ Bruce Wayne deaths now.... I think. And, we get a fun story which shows us a huge “What if” story that gets to play with tons of cool ideas but ultimately go back to normal continuity. And that’s what made the story so amazing to me. The toy box was opened with some amazing ideas and they can all get

thrown back in without impacting our character forever.... other than the gun shot guide to the alley that is..... Why complain about an issue or issues that mean nothing to continuity for the most part? The story was meant to be fun, creative, clever, exciting, have tons of action, and to give the readers explanation. So many readers complain that he leaves things open-ended. This wasn’t at all. We get a beginning, middle, and end. We get a why?

We get what so many wanted yet still we complain. Haters are gonna hate. T-Swift said that but I’m sure Jesus said it first..... anyway... I had fun with it and think it was amazing. I hope you all look at his arc with your glass being both half full and half empty because technically.. it’s both. If you like what you heard, love talking all types of comics, and are interested in joining a comic chat group, hit me up at dispatchdcu@gmail.com or @dispatchdcu on twitter. Catch you all later!

Nice review as always! I am actually just upset that Tom king has used this story just to set up Booster to go into his upcoming sanctuary stories...i dont like a ptsd booster, but this 3 issue arc was less wedding present and more to make booster insane

favorite types of stories. We know none of this will last and everything will go back to normal when it’s done so the writer can be as crazy and out there as they would like to be. If you’ve read Thanos for the past half of a year, it was the same idea. Stories told in current continuity using timey-whimey-mumbo-jumbo to explain their current situation are a nice way to truly experiment with the characters in a creative way normal readers would never get to see otherwise.

Flashpoint is another prime example. This reminds me of a mini-Flashpoint in a way. The opportunity to tell crazy things, like a Thomas Wayne Batman and Wonder Woman fighting Aqua man, all because Barry’s Mom lived. Really? So, whose to say this couldn’t happen if both Thomas and Martha lived? So many may argue that this take is unrealistic. Bruce would never act like this. To that I say: maybe and maybe not. Take Metal as an example. A joker Batman is not realistic to me at at, or a Doomsday

Batman, or a Batman so possessed to save the rest of his family that he merged with Barry to become Red Death. Why are all of those ok but not this? Why is White Knight Batman ok? A Batman so driven, forceful, and cruel. A Batman totally unlike any we have seen, except maybe Dark Knight Returns Batman. How about Earth One Batman? Point is: they are all different from our normal Batman. Are we just upset that it’s in Batman, the main comic?

My next point is: we are looking at a snap shot of a “what if” story in which both of Bruce’s parents stayed alive as well as him. Bruce wouldn’t be a great guy because he seemed like a snot-nosed rich kid before. He never learned to fight. He never became a detective. He never dealt with loss. And we don’t completely know what other things changed by Martha and Thomas continuing to be alive. Others may say; we do know because people like Snyder wrote about early Batman and other writers have

told glimpses of his early life. Your right. But his parents being alive could change that and frankly, every writer alters continuity of the character they get when they get it whether it’s intentional or not. So, I love the else-world, crazy feel of the story as well as the insane ending. To see Bruce kill Dick with a gun, Selena to slice and dice Bruce’s dad, Alfred, and a completely crazed Booster trying to fix everything for a year, was nuts and awesome!

I enjoyed the heck out of this story. I loved the Booster take because it reminds me of the tv show Booster, Justice League Unlimited, and even the current Justice League Action that I watch with my boys. Booster is goofy, funny, and his actions are borderline lunacy. Is that how current Booster is in comics..... not according to his most recent appearance in Action Comics by the person who created him. But, from someone who hasn’t read a ton of Booster, the tv shows are the most influence

I have towards him so it fits to me and I love it. And I’m not going to claim to know a ton about Booster BUT wasn’t he originally portrayed like this goofy character we see here? I also feel like King did a good job of explaining the “why” in the past two issues. Many complain that he leaves things ambiguous and wants readers to fill in gaps. To me, these issues are straight forward. Sure, we want to know more about this world but the actions of the characters in the story appear to be

straight forward to me. Selena kills Thomas because of tearing down her orphanage and appears that he ruined her life, which may even have driven her to being a murderer in the first place. Booster has been trying to find a way for a year to fix this and has been stuck in this new world and even this worlds Batman knows “of” Booster by name and has appeared to be hunting him down. In general, this story was fun, exciting, and filled with pure insanity that we all know can be put back to

normal when all his is done. I’m enjoying this arc and hope we get even more zany fun before this is all done. The story is crazy fun and I left wanting more. I’m sorry if this review didn’t help you at all and if it did, you’re welcome! If you like what you heard, love talking all types of comics, and are interested in joining a comic chat group, hit me up at dispatchdcu@gmail.com or @dispatchdcu on twitter. Catch you all later! Peace

But... there is no Blue and Gold in this continuity. There is no booster/ Ted kord team. Lol..great review as always!

Thanks feel free to use if you want

Maybe he attempts suicide to escape his feelings, his depression, and this entire arc is showing Mister Miracle trying to escape the loss of his child? Being a father of 3 now, I don’t know what I would do without my family and my children. And I don’t know much about a lot of things. But what I do know is that their are certain things in life that you just can’t escape. Ultimately, I feel like that is the main idea of this entire story that King is writing. How do you escape the inescapable?

Can the person that can escape EVERYTHING escape loss and depression? And who knows if I’m right or Bat Brad, or any of us. But what makes this comic so dang good is what thought provoking questions it guides us too. If you are looking for straight answers with a beginning, middle, and end, this book ain’t for you and you truly shouldn’t read it. If your interested in a great comic and life discussion while enjoying some really cool art and comic characters, this book is totally for you.

And if it’s not for you, you cares cause I know it’s for me! If you like what you heard, love talking all types of comics, and are interested in joining a comic chat group, hit me up at dispatchdcu@gmail.com or @dispatchdcu on twitter. Catch you all later! Peace

Can I put this up as a "second opinion" review? My theory is still that mister miracle is Tom king himself...started a family whole being in the CIA and called back to fight war on terror. And the bit where Batman kills babies is,the idea he was too busy writing the first year of Batman that he missed a bunch of his kids baby years. Also, he did start writing the series after having a panic attack/near death experience kind of like mister miracles at beginning.

You can certainly put it up as a second opinion.