He walked out of Arkham after a full gauntlet of villains unscathed. Solomon Grundy has taken on and challenged Superman, yet Batman took him out bare-handed without breaking a sweat; accompanied to boot as Amygdala was there too. Bane has already employed a gauntlet tactic against Batman before, in ended with the breaking of the Bat. That story for all the 90’s insanity to follow was far better than whatever this is.

Am I the only one who has no problem with what Arya Stark did?

I have no problem with what she did, this I found more questionable.

I didn't mind what Arya did either.

It's not what she did - with that, I have absolutely no problem. With how she did it, that's what I loathe. 8 years worth of build up and then poof, all gone with one stab. Same here - Batman takes down all these rogues with no effort whatsoever. They are just pawns.

Ehhh, more like four years of build up. The thing is, Game of Thrones wasn't really about the Night King, it was about the... game of thrones. So honestly, I was fine with what happened. I wasn't watching the show just for some supernatural thing to come in and kill everyone. I was watching it because of what the show was about before the Night King became so important.

Hear, hear.

"The purpose of a villain in a superhero story is to challenge the hero, make them embrace their best self, grow and learn." I think this may account for a lot of your dislike for this run. I can't speak for you but, to me, King isn't writing according to that rule. Only my opinion but I'm glad he's not. I like that comics change over time and that traditional roles of heroes and villains do too.

@Batman Jones Well it just doesn’t make any sense, that Batman can beat his villains so easily. It’s just unnecessarily overpowering him to make him& Bane look badass, but it’s disrespectful towards the other villains. That has nothing to do with changing traditional writing it’s just a common mistake many writers are doing, when they put too many villains in one issue. Happened in Shadow of the Bat as well.

@Darkseid24, the way I read King's run, he's taking a lot of poetic license. I don't think he's playing by any of the rules of traditional comic book storytelling. (See Batman taking out a thousand men in I Am Bane for a similar thing.) He didn't in Mister Miracle either. Whether people dig on that or not is up to each reader. I just meant to point out that, IMHO, he's not following the rules. So if a reader expects him to follow the rules, they're bound to be disappointed. A little more...

...I concede that's more problematic in the main Batman title than in his limited series'. I, for one, appreciate it for what it is. I only meant to point out that stuff like "villains are *supposed* to" XYZ doesn't necessarily apply. Also...

An alt-reading that is more traditional could be that Bane ordered them to fall as easily as they did. I think a lot of King's work can be interpreted in different ways. I get why that's frustrating for a lot of readers, esp. on a flagship title.

Or they weren’t that motivated from the very beginning, but still they deserve better.

To me the best way to break a conventional role of a hero/villain is to portray them in shades of grey, humanize them, I suppose deconstruct them. Pre New-52 Mr. Freeze was one of my absolute favourites, since he hardly qualifies as a bad guy per se. Turning someone into a pointless punching bag does only disservice to everyone - both villains and the hero defeating them, since there's no journey leading there. Just one punch, and that's it.

I’ve heard the theory that Bane ordered them to fall but that doesn’t make much sense. These are guys who all have a personal vendetta against Batman but they are willing to just fall for someone else’s plan? And why would Solomon Grundy be willing to do that? Just doesn’t make sense. If you want to break Batman having everyone take turns kicking the crap out of a weakened Batman, because he should be weak after being locked in the nightmare machine, would make more sense than this.

Agreed. It indeed doesn’t make any sense. Best for the villains would be to stay neutral.

@batmanJones He is also not following continuity in his run or in other current books which drives me crazy. Plus, after the wedding we dealt with him just being violent because he was sad and now he is right back into it. He beat Freeze to a pulp for no reason before and now he taunts him and beats him up again? Huge mistake have Man-Bat in Arkham - makes no sense at all!!!

@DC Stuff: I think King's writing a Batman that's been through hell and is unhinged, which is exactly what Bane wants him to be. He's not fighting for truth and justice right now. The question we're dealing with now is how far can Batman fall. He was brutal with Freeze before, he left KGBeast for dead, he punched Gordon in the face... And that was before he was hooked up to a Scarecrow machine and forced to face his greatest nightmares. (cont'd)

Bane's plan is apparently to destroy all that he is or has ever been. That's the story King's writing. To argue he's acting out of character is to agree with King and recognize that Bane's plan is working. There's a reason this arc is called "The Fall and the Fallen." Batman is falling through a bottomless pit of Bane's making. Of course his response to that is out of character.

@batmanjones fine, but again, why is man-bat in Arkham? Like in HIC, he seems to have no idea about what DCU he is writing in or the current continuity.

And @batmanjones, the thing I hate about kings writing is in how you describe it. You have to use a lot of maybe's and apparentlies because he never gives us real clues as to what is going on. Until the end, when we get an exposition filled info dump to show us all there was no way to figure it out as it goes. It happened in this run a bunch of times and really happened in HIC

Bane hasn’t done anything to actually break Batman though. There hasn’t been anything that he hasn’t already gone through before. His out of character actions haven’t been earned.

Agreed Talon. I mean Batman went trough hell? How? All that happened to him was his girlfriend breaking up with him& that’s quite common. Dick getting shot& trying to start anew didn’t bother him much. Banes attempt to break him is quite lame& rather feels like Highschool drama. If Bruce is getting violent because of that then he belongs to Arkham himself& he can’t blame the villains for being criminals, since their life is worse. Sorry but I think it’s cheap& I don’t really buy it,

Im also wondering, why Tim or Damien don’t interfere. Tim always said Batman needs a Robin to not going all crazy. But they get ignored& it also seems Bruve will be an ass towards Alfred in future issues.

If Jason and Damian's deaths didn't break him, I doubt Bane can accomplish anything now. That said, it's not like he can' be a threatening villain, but come on, as Darkeid already said, he didn't accomplish much since the beginning of King's run. He could have broken Gotham Girl, but Bruce, nah, his actions seem less meaningful than what he did to him physically in Knightfall. Personally, I think King tries to build Bane up as a master villain, but forgot to actually establish him as one.

Might well give him the Az-Bats armor already, because this is a poor man’s Knightfall just with the pretentiousness kicked up to 11.

I agree with both of you. But maybe City of Bane will be great. At least the cover looks great.

It would be the first in 70 some issues so I wouldn’t hold my breath for a great arc.

Yeah you are unfortunately right. Some were ok, but none of them were great in my opinion.

Dunno. I've lost hope in King long time ago. It could be decent, and I hope it is, but after so much filler, meaningless, boring arcs and overall futility of majority of his run wasting one good set-up after another, I doubt. Look how Gotham Girl was wasted in the recent crossover with Flash, despite having really solid introduction and potential to be a deep, important, conflicted character. I expect something as generic as Thomas being killed by Bane and Bats understanding the world needs him.

Haha I would be totally fine with Bane killing Thomas, since I hate that guy. I rather hope we don’t get some dramatic reunion between son& father. Overall it makes no sense to me, that Thomas is even there. There is zero explanation.

exactly! we've been wondering how Thomas is there or why he'd be helping Bane against his own son. King probably just threw that in there as a mystery box, and now has no idea what to do with it. the whole scenario is just dumb beyond dumb.

“I owe you for all the fun”, it was an odd comment, I agree. But other than that I think the whole scene was pretty good.

i didn't like it since there is no evidence that links anything going on to any of the characters...his evidence and "detective work" was all in his nightmares. It's like dreaming your buddy stole your wallet and waking up and punching him for it. When will we see Batman do some actual detective work????

But see? The whole issue is written just to be a reverse of the I Am Bane issue. King only writes to be clever. There is nothing like a straight forward story from him. See Omega Men; the second half of the series is a mirror version of the first 6 issues. And the story is essentially pointless because the freedom fighters become the terrorists. But he sure wrote a 12 issue miniseries...

So it’s not just me who saw the repetitive structure. Cool, cool, cool.

not only is it reverse I am Bane, but that was a reverse ripoff Knightfall...so this is just Knightfall!!! Boring, repetitive and ripoff

I just gotta say first that Batman never punched Solomon Grundy in this issue, that's why Bats was laughing. You can tell me he punched Grundy... but can you show me? Hahahahahaha

Hint, it involves ducking.

That’s true.

What's hard to understand? How king tried to explain things in an info dump that's inconsistent with first 7 issues and showed we were idiots for thinking it was a mystery with clues to play along with?

It’s hard to understand bad writing. It’s apparently hard for King to understand how computers work as well.

Has no ideas how computers work is right!

Or how to remember how lagoon boy died

Yup, it’s hard tho comprehend The greatness of Tom King’s writing. The depth of it and of his characters.

Guys I think I found Tom Kings burner account!

Nah, pretty sir they are just a troll.

Sure

Lol?!?! Depth????? Lololol

More like the depths he sinks to try to shock readers

I am giving it a like. For the sheer gall in his statement.

I wouldnt give it a 8, but this issue made sense for me.

i wonder who the parent account belong's to? the way they were review bombing that Spiderman story.

While I'm pretty sure this is a troll, you wouldn't believe the number of people that actually think they're smarter than others for liking Tom King

YourGreenMuse - how terribly ironic.

I'm not a troll and I don't think that I'm in someway smarter than you. Cheers.

Andrea D’Alò - you're not the one making numerous profiles, are you?

no, I am not making numerous profiles and I don't know why NoName is not answering.

i'm not sure. i could be wrong, but i read it as he was implying that towards the person making numerous accounts. at least that how i read it.

I think just because people like something others don’t, doesn’t mean he/ she made a fake account. This is a story you either hate or love it seems.

Darkseid24 - the admin of this site specifically called out this NoName97 person for making multiple profiles and review bombing. - - https://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/marvel-comics/spider-man-life-story/2

I see. Didn’t know that.

and knowing is half the battle. (GGGGGGGGGGG. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII. JOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEE!) sorry. the opportunity to use that quote was just way too tempting. 😂😂😂😂

Whatever you are quoting I don’t know it anyway 😂

What? How do you not know GI Joe?

Darkseid24 - check this short video out. >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFthiZ_Jftc

Thanks, never watched that lol

you're welcome :)

No, I’m not a troll and I love King.

Eisner nominated writer :).

Yeah, he's overrated. And I think this event is the one where most people realize that. But not you.

I listened to an interview of King talking about HIC& it made a lot of sense, so in the end HIC is ok for me, but I’m worried about Batman run.

it made a lot of sense. please do elaborate.

You shouldn’t have to listen to the writer explain the story on a podcast for it to make sense. If it doesn’t make sense on the page then it is crap writing.

I understood it before, but it was still interesting to hear, what King had to say. Didn’t sound like he hates Wally. I agree with him, that it would be wrong to just forget about his trauma.

He could have felt with his trauma without turning him to a bad guy.

True, but I don’t think Wally is a villain. It was an accident

That's not what made him a villain. It's what he did afterwards.

@darkseid24 what exactly did king say is Wally’s trauma? He really skirts around the issue of how Wally got to rebirth and what he has been doing since. What is the trauma that king explains is and has happened?

I think what messed Wally up was the fact that Linda didn't know him and their children didn't exist.

i still don't think that'd be enough to drive Wally to try to cover up that he was responsible for his friend's deaths, or frame Booster Gold for murder. the entire premise is forced and silly.

@DC Stuff read Flash War. That explains it. He was also on the Titans for the first 18 issues of the most recent run.

Yeah, Wally’s actions after the accident are what make him a villain. Not the accident itself. King destroyed a hero to fit his narrative that there is no hope by killing Rebirths symbol of it.

Whatever the case, I hope that writers will stop referring to HiC in their books and maybe someone, in the future, will write this thing out of continuity. Maybe when Doomsday Clock wraps up it will happen.

That is what a lot of people are hoping.

I think Doomsday Clock will have little to no impact on the DCU.

King was referring to his trauma of loosing everything thanks to Barry, but I also think the reason, why Wally broke was, because everyone else payed no attention to his trauma. Especially because it’s not the same. Bruce, Superman, WW, Barry haven’t lost everything, so it’s disrespectful to act like they did. I also don’t think what he did afterwards is worse than killing people. He was quite emotional there& as long as he doesn’t kill again he’s not a villain. I also think Doomsday Clock won’t

have any impact, especially because King said in his interview Barry is responsible for New52, while Doomsday Clock had the intention to blame Dr. Manhatten for it. It was also delayed again for like 2-3 months. Newest issue will be released end of May.

You don’t think that his going around and mutilating and staging the bodies of his “friends” to frame two innocent people is worse than accidentally losing control, no matter how much bullshit that was, and killing people? Seriously? How do you not see how those are the actions of a villain?

King can say that his fairy godmother was responsible for the New52, he’s not in a position to make any definitive calls for the greater DC universe. Until Dido, Lee, or preferably Johns make that definitive call, it’s all supposition. Snyder seems to have a large say these days too. With how crappy DC is doing right now, they should definitely use DDC to reset things. Again.

i've not been the biggest fan of Doomsday Clock, but i can appreciate it a lot more than HiC. i really hope DDC will actually reset all this nonsense that has been polluting the DCU as of late.

I’m a fan of DDC but it’s had some pacing issues outside of the ridiculous delays. My biggest complaint is that they shouldn’t have started Rebirth with everything binging on DDC if they couldn’t produce it on time. Or he’ll, at least close to on time. These delays are putting it over a year behind schedule I think? Ridiculous

Blaming other people for the murder makes Wally look like an ass, but killing his friends who trusted him is worse. However given the circumstances I think you can excuse both. Batman also once abandoned his lover in prison, framing her for murder, while he ran free instead of helping her in Bruce Wayne Fugitive. Again heroes aren’t perfect, they are flawed as well. I also think King has more to say these days in DC than Johns. I don’t want any of the two have a word in this. Both ruined

characters. However Didio allows King to do whatever he wants. And I don’t want another reboot as it was originally hinted with Doomsday Clock.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree here. I think accidental killings are bad but the lengths he went to to cover them up are the actions of a bad guy and I don’t see how that can be overcome. Batman leaving Sasha in prison while he solved Vespers murder was shitty but it wasn’t even in the same ballpark as what King had Wally do. Other than Batman and this travesty, I don’t know that King has had any real influence in the DCU. If anything, most writers seem to actively ignore the shit he

Writes. That’s why you rarely see his stories references anywhere else.

I guess we have. Both is bad, but trying to cover it up didn’t kill anyone& he’s not a villain, because he immediately regretted it. Otherwise he wouldn’t have killed himself& send it to Lois. Batman didn’t kill anyone that’s true, but it was an asshole move, just like Wally, but Wally was traumatized, while Batman just wanted to move on. He also didn’t leave Sasha to solve the murder, he left her to kill off Bruce Wayne& to just be Batman. Kings stories have a lot of influence.

There are references in Red Hood, Batgirl, Titans, Nightwing, Catwoman. If anything Detective Comics doesnt get referenced, but Kings Batman run& HIC definitely get.

It sucks, but King has a lot to say in DC currently. I however also don’t want Johns back. He ruined my favorite characters after all.

Again, you’re equating mutilating the bodies of his friends and framing two innocent people with being an asshole? Hell, there are serial killers who’ve regretted their actions initially. King has been around for 70 issues now and has not been referenced much at all. He’s had some references in a couple of Bat related books but nothing like you’d think. Even HiC has only been referenced a couple of times. I think you’re highly overestimating his influence.

He wrote a message in his victims blood. That is deliberate and psychopathic behavior.

If you don't agree with Talon1load you're a troll. Same stuff I've come to know and avoid from them on CBR forums.

Actually, your comment here is kind of trolling. Sooooo

Instead of attacking me, why don’t you talk about this issue like we are.

It’s of course an asshole behavior, but nothing most people wouldn’t do. I thought it was worse what Green Lantern did in Cosmic Oddysey, since he killed billions of innocent out of mere stupidity& arrogance. He still was redeemed& so will be Wally. Wally has an excuse at least. And you are underestimating his influence. His stories get referenced in so many books I already told you. While Detective Comics doesn’t. According to interviews his City of Bane will also tie in Years of the villains,

which is DCs Next big event. DC also wouldn’t allow a writer to write a story like HIC, if said writer doesn’t have their trust& influence.

"If you don't agree with Talon1load you're a troll. Same stuff I've come to know and avoid from them on CBR forums." UHMMM. NO.

Last weeks review is the first that I recall ever interacting with Andrea and he was definitely trolling. Either way, why not actually talk to merits of the book?

Not going to say more than this but it's common for you, Talon, to reply to a reader's comment about enjoying a book by calling them a troll or saying they must mean it sarcastically. Then you always follow up with "don't talk about me, talk about the book" which disregards the fact that you made it personal in the first place. Nobody should have to defend their appreciation for a comic book to you. No offense intended. Just tired of it.

You do use the troll thing quite often, Talon1load.

i'd still like to know who the main account of NoName97 belongs to. i'd imagine they were doing quite a bit of review bombing to get called out by the site's admin.

I’ve called Andrea a troll twice but he was literally trolling. Other than that, I’ve questioned if people who give 10/10’s for books that are crap according to most other reviewers. Perhaps I’ve been wrong but I don’t think so. You mention me making it personal, I call them troll when they come to argue without providing anything of substance regarding the book. Andrea literally argued with me about his inability to understand proper English. He was trolling. But, I’ll try to stop calling peopl

People trolls.

I don’t think someone is a troll just because he disagrees with most reviews. Otherwise I also would be one with Nightwing. People have different taste. That’s it, but giving Batman 68 10/10, I also question that lol

For me HiC is a 10/10 because King talks about humanity and the sense of loss though superheroes, and for other reasons of course. For me Batman 68 in a 10/10 because King talks about love, to be loved and to love in a Batman story, re-defining the character of Batman in a very coherent way.

Now, am I trolling?

I also wrote a few lines in my review, if you want to answer do it there, on MY review, ok?

If that's your reason, you need to consume more media. Because neither of those issues are groundbreaking like you seem to believe.

Thank you, Andrea. Both issues were excellent and it's messed up that one has to defend what they're enjoying.

i still would like to know who this burner account belongs to.

Your opinion isn’t what makes you a troll. The stupid incessant arguing you did last week about the way a review was written does.

Ok.

Batman 68 was a waste, HIC 8 was ok, but nothing groundbreaking or deep character exploration. I mean how? The way the fear gas reacted made zero sense& so did Bruce’s „nightmares“. They didn’t fit his character at all. Writing characters out of character isn’t groundbreaking, it’s just bad writing.

Said better than I

More like Thomas lost his mind because he hardly seem to be the character King himself wrote earlier in this run. It’s bendis level ignorance of continuity and that has never been a good thing.

None of the characters seem to be themselves anymore.

King never wrote a lit of thomas... that was mainly Joshua Williamson in the Button

They share writing credits, and I’d imagine he would have to be familiar with the characters involved in the crossover, or at least know what the other author was doing, if he planned to use them in his story.

If he didn’t write Thomas, he should have done his research about his character.

these shouldn't be "stupid" nightmares though since Bane is the one making him have them

Thomas Wayne and Bane are the two behind these nightmares but they can’t control the nightmares, none can. And yes I said “stupid” because someone can see it as “oh Batman fear the Selina could left him for supes!1!1” but this is a very low point of view of the entire issue.

No, Tom King has said multiple times that bane is forcing these nightmares with fear toxin and Batman is trying to fight his way out of them. He said bane is making Batman have these specific nightmares to “break him”.

Uh, ok. I don’t know how someone can control nightmares but ok, we’ll see in the 69.

what do you think Tom King is going to do when he's not writing Batman anymore?

I don’t care. I just want him to stop writing and destroying characters I love.

i say he should go back to Marvel, and take Bendis with him.

I actually heard he’s going to write for TV. I just wish he’d go ahead and go. And yes, take Bendis too.

Uh, no. Us Marvel fans would rather they stay with the Distinguished Competition, alright? We got 20 years of Bendis, we've served our time. And we got exactly what good there is to get from King: A 12 issue miniseries that focuses on a character small enough that no one gets too upset with if something doesn't exactly fit.

hahaha! you're very right YourGreenMuse. my apologies. maybe King and Bendis should head over to IDW. they can team up and write Go-Bots together.

I don't think they'd ever team up. According to Bendis, when he worked with Mark Millar, they had a lot of trouble because Bendis' writing is ultimately optimistic whereas Millar's writing is ultimately pessimistic... Or something like that. King's writing is definitely pessimistic, or I forgot what that word means.

well, there's only ONE thing for it then.... they both head over to IDW, then duke it out over which one writes Go-Bots and which one writes My Little Pony.

King has to write My Little Pony, I'd take it as seriously as I do his Batman.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Pessimistic? I rather think King tries too hard to make it sound more demanding and intellectual, but fails with it.

Yeah, King isn't as smart as he thinks he is, I guess. I mean, he didn't realize that Troy was a real place. But I was speaking more to his tone. He writes very dark stories and sometimes it works and sometimes it's really stupid. Just like pessimism. ;D

Very well put, YourGreenMuse. Very few people like this melancholy and depressing Batman, in fact it seems like the brighter issues are people’s favorites (the double date issues), whereas many people liked Vision (including me). I think at first he had a lot of gimmicks that worked, but as he ran out of ideas he just used those same gimmicks and people stopped falling for them (I sometimes still do... look at me, the easily entertained).

All writers have tropes, but his are so apparent that people have caught on very quickly. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be adapting or becoming more diverse as a writer.

@ohhaimark I like a depressing Batman, but Kings dialogue often isn’t that great. That’s my main complain when it comes to him. Some sound pretty weird.

the problem when a writer gets stuck on a book for an extended amount of time is they eventually run out of ideas. they keep recycling the same stories over and over. look at Scott Snyder with his "dark reflection" trope, or the "he thinks he knows, but he DOESN'T really know at all". listening to him pitch a story, i couldn't differentiate one from the next. Back to King, i just don't like how his Batman is all mopey. he's usually pretty incompetent until the "plot" needs him not to be.

ohhaimark - i agree. the double date issue was probably one of the few arcs that i really enjoyed. pity that story had gotten completely forgotten about afterwards.

Yeah, those were really fun issues. I wish we could get more stories like that.

I'm here to remind you all that the Double Date issue was part of the arc with that terrible Wonder Woman characterization, where King made it look like she was trying to seduce Bruce.

I didn’t like that one. Actually nothing that has to do with Batman& Catwoman wedding. I liked the one with Bane& Penguin.

Yeah, no sorry, those were terrible. I was talking strictly about the issues with Superman, which could’ve and should’ve been a standalone arc.

oh yeah! that Wonder Woman story with the Gentle Man. YEESH! that was pretty awful!

ohhaimark - yeah! i was JUST thinking the same thing!

They really were terrible.

It's so edgy. The sexualization just makes it 3x worse.

Yup, pretty much. King seems to be an Azzarello wannabe. Like Batman Damned wasn't terrible enough on its own, now it has a little brother, equally bad, oversexualized and out of character.

The Batgirl panels made me very uncomfortable. A highly sexualised figure with large breasts and huge ass, all to show a bullet mark that almost killed then traumatised Barbara? Surely there was a better way to do it? It’s similar to the sexualisation of Ivy’s dead body on one of the proposed covers for a future issue.

I agree with everything but Snyder's Batman. He was a meathead.

I don’t think they are oversexualized in HiC. Batgirl was just showing her scars& like every human she has a butt. What should DC do? Turning their outfits into Burkas for this event? Sexualization isn’t what is wrong with HiC in my opinion, it’s rather the portrayal and handeling of some characters.

Big Brother - excellent analogy of Snyder's Batman.

I think it was more about intimacy, these were vulnerable moments never meant to be shared, any sort of oversexualization added to this point. The "copy and paste panels" for example sets a tone and pace for a sorta broken, mysterious, private atmosphere. I also have no idea why you have a problem with Harley, but we all read different stuff, she must be someone completely different to you :( to me for example she is 'that insane clown bitch I hate' so it works, the peices fit, just missing some

@Aether Well problem with Harley these days is, that DC doesn’t portray her as the „insane clown bitch“, but as a poor little victim of Joker, who fights her way back to life. DC portrays her as a hero& ignores, that she alone is responsible for her crimes, especially for the kids she killed. At least that’s my problem with HQ these days, her hypocrisy& how much she gets overpowered these days. Miss the days, when Joker& Batman punched her in the face.

myconius & Big Brother - I wouldn't go as far to say that he was a meathead, but definitely too many quips and jokes for Bats

SONOFBATMANN - i was just thinking in regards to how many times Snyder's Batman clumsily bumbled over the tripwire in the Owls story. or when despite recent evidence Batman was convinced that the Court was not real because he couldn't find them when he was 10 years old. or Batman needlessly bashing Nightwing's tooth out of his mouth. "hey Dick, we need to surgically remove something from your tooth." ... nope. (WHAM!)

Batman beat a tooth out of Nightwings mouth?

yeah. it was in New52 Batman issue #7.

Thank you, couldn’t remember that. Was kind of weird. I only remember Bruce beating Dick in Bruce Wayne Murderer.

you're welcome. ....Bruce Wayne Murderer, now THAT was GREAT story! at least the first half. second half was good, but not as memorable.

I don't know where in this issue HQ was sexualized. As for Batgirl, I didn't think anything was wrong with that interview page when I read it. Then I read some reviews and looked at it again. Still, don't see it. As for Lois. What is wrong with wife seductively coming into the bedroom where her husband is?

i think the proble egon is everyone is being sexy in a book where nobody cares about the slaughter and the book has left any mental health issues it claimed to be about far, far behind.

Truth be told, I don't think there were many mental issues in it, to begin with.

Me neither. The entire event is shallower than a pond, and the entire mental health potential it has, conceptually, was completely lost due to King's poor writing and even worse characterization of many key heroes. Oversexualization, as bad s it may be, seems like a distraction compared to awful writing underneath it. Same can be said about Azzarello's Batman Damned, another garbage of a comic.

But it's simply about dealing with the mentally disturbed, in a compassionate way. Everyone clearly cares about the slaughter!Beetle is broing out with Booster, Batgirl sharing common ground with Harley, all to gain further understanding. Ya got the Trinity all high strung and confused, everyone is clearly investigating. To think it's all just about tits and ass is frankly disturbing.

It's a short mystery Crisis story... in league with something like Identity Crisis, but much better so far. This story has far more personality, while balancing its dramatic themes well and clearly with imposing force. But, if you hate the characterizations I guess there would be no saving this one for you. I just think writers should have a chance to work with characters that are more malleable, and not bound by other interpretations in such a rigid way.

In my opinion Identity Crisis is a far better story than HiC. Identity Crisis qquestioned the heroes methods, but there is no real plot in HiC yet apart from deaths for shock value.

I really enjoy your reviews. This one represents my feelings about the issue very well. I didn't feel the issue was "kinda... pointless" but I was so eager for the followup to the cliffhanger of #60 it was tough to go to another place instead. I think "Knightmares" is probably going to be a series of smaller stories that reflect on the nature of Batman. More...

I love "Master Bruce" as a villain. I'm not sure where it's been done before so I'd be curious to know which stories/characters you may be referring to. My memory is not at all what it used to be. More...

The main thing I have to say about this issue is that Tom King is obviously playing a very long game and I think it will be more widely appreciated when collected. Same with Doomsday Clock. Out of the context of the run I think this was a great Batman issue. In context, I mostly agree with what you wrote so I'm just going to give it a rating.

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy my reviews. I agree, the cliffhanger from last issue was so good, it was a bit awkward to do a different story. I was mostly referring to Thomas Elliot, as most others did, but I think that Master Bruce feels original enough to be a great villain. I love his obsession with becoming like Bruce, rather than just being another young villain who murdered his parents.

I do think this whole series will read better as one whole story. In fact, I have been rereading this series in trade and the first few volumes are a lot better than I remember. I'm a pretty big fan of King's writing, so it's probably just a personal thing. Maybe my original expectations were too high. I also love Doomsday Clock. I will definitely get whatever hardcover or deluxe edition they release of that.

Am I the only one, who thinks this kid has something to do with Thomas Wayne? Would make way more sense than him being the real one.

Ah, Tommy, of course. I feel like Master Bruce is quite different and at least as provocative. I'm with you on all your comments. I think King's Batman and his Heroes in Crisis are going to be received much differently and more favorably when he's been able to finish his stories. This is a stumbling block with reviewing episodic storytelling before the story's finished. I don't think anything in King's Batman is filler. I think it's all part of the plan. Time will tell.

I agree with Batman Jones 100%. Oh hi Mark, are you still a 6.5 (a “D”) for this issue. Sounds like u agree with him now. maybe not. Luvin all your reviews btw

Thanks, Comic Princess. :) Darkseid24: Maybe I'm missing something but I haven't seen any indication Flashpoint Batman is the "real" Thomas Wayne as in our Bruce Wayne's actual father. I'm still operating on the assumption he's meant to be from the Flashpoint timeline. I think there's a clear connection to Doomsday Clock since we've got a Thomas Wayne and a Jor-El running around the DCU now. I figured we were meant to draw the conclusion that Dr. Manhattan was responsible for that.

My original score was a 7.5, but I really didn't feel like this needed to be a full issue, so I took an extra point off. I don't really use letter grades to label my reviews either, I have more of a personal system, where 6.5ish ratings could be called "pretty good," or "decent." I think Batman Jones is a great reviewer, he makes a lot of great points, certainly better than mine, however for some reason I just wasn't feeling this issue as much as I wanted to.

ohhaimark, don't sell yourself short. your review system is solid, methodical and very thorough. plus they are very entertaining to read. sometimes more entertaining than the actual comics themselves.

Ditto to myconius. I think ohaimark’s reviews are much mote thoughtful than my own. I usually just say how much I liked an issue or not. I don’t think I’ve posted negative reviews because that’s just not my jam. I love ohhaimark’s reviews!

he's very modest, on top of being very amiable. ...that ohhaimark fellow is the salt of the earth, i tell you.

I agree, 100%

Thank you guys so much! I really appreciate it! Glad you like and enjoy my reviews.

you are most welcome! :-)

:)

Batman Jones...a very similar villain is Tommy elliot/Hush

Ray Goldfield provides an insightful analysis of Batman #61 that may interest you. His full review can be found under critic reviews.

I try not to read reviews before I write my own for fear of conforming my opinion to someone else's or repeating things. I read Ray Goldfield's analysis and it... wasn't really anything I didn't already understand. He basically just explained the issue. He just happened to find it disturbing and dramatic where I find the exact same thing tired and boring.

Fair enough.

do you wanna know why Tom King is hellbent on doing 100+ issues of Batman?? ...because $$$$$$$$$

do you wanna abide by Dan's rules?

The analysis is just what happened in the comic. In the end, it was just to get Mathew back in people minds and off to Arkham to team up with bane and really, Thomas Wayne. Problems though are why is this kid not already in Arkham and it's not because he's a kid since he looks to be in a general jail...blackgate?

black gate? Is he allowed to be near other inmates after killing 6 before this? More forces story details from king

This is a one-shot story. We will see the kid a bunch of issues from now but only to show he is with bane and Thomas wayne

It's not so original, the story is pretty much a RIP off of hush

All the stuff with Bruce and Batman is made up in the kid's head.

the kid killed his parents and was arrested in issue #38. There was no murderer and it's him thinking he is young Bruce the entire issue while in jail

Thank you, I really have to reread Batman 38 I guess. What I am asking myself how can the kid make the link between Bruce Wayne and Batman. I mean he thinks he is Bruce Wayne, but that doesnt mean he automatically know Bruce is Batman.

i know!!!

Rumor has it that he’s going to Arkham to be Thomas Wayne’s Robin

That could happen too, but I am still waiting for an explanation of Thomas being in that timeline.

Aren’t we all! Unfortunately I believe they are going with the route of “he escaped flashpoint universe at the end of the button and followed flash and Batman home”

I don’t hope so.

odd thing is no mention of Hanuka since Harley and her family are Jewish

good point.

How are you reading this? Release date is tomorrow.

Always frequent your local comic book store whenever possible but comics are available digitally late Tuesday night on comixology and iBooks.

I buy from Comixology and my LCS. I'm aware that books can become available late Tuesday from Comixology. I don't think Walt read and reviewed 9 books at 11pm on a Tuesday.

people get review copies days earlier than release

Synthozoid are you the ComicBookRoundUp police?

I'm AI created by Ultron

@ DC stuff - and then they review those advance copies for CBR, Newsarama, etc. Following Walt's logic we should all be getting free comics to review because we give our opinions on social media.

Dude worry about yourself

Synthozoid you're a damn hypocrite.

The internet is so ugly sometimes

Damn Walt for being in the position to have free review comics that absolutely no one here would decline. Damn him!

it's no reason for some self entitled douche (COUGHsynthozoidCOUGH) should be harassing him over it. very ironic he's harassing him, when he himself is a damn hypocrite.

Lol thanks guys! Plus it’s not like I don’t buy the physical copies. I have my 4 comic titles that always get the issues from and each week I get the issues that I really enjoy. For example not collecting the heros book but I did get heros three because i really much enjoyed it and would go back to read it. Hell first Tom King book since the end of I am Bane that I bought.

you're very welcome waltgator93. - i wasn't about to sit by while Synthozoid attempted to troll and harass yet another member on here. - this is what a pathetic loser Synthozoid is. he's been trying to troll me by copying my reviews and falsely leaving them on other comics i've reviewed. - Synthozoid definitely has no life.

check out the "review" Synthozoid posted - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - https://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/idw-publishing/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/88

lol just saw it! Basically summarized up your review with no adding anything of his own.

Ultron is pleased with Synthozoid.

Ultron is displeased with Tony Walton.

He goes into bot mode whenever called out

Synthetic human.

if you really want to convince us all that you're a robot, then just start spouting out some Tom King dialog. 😛

I can't do that right now Michael. Please convince Ultron that you are not a failed comic book artist.

"Bane. I've come for Psycho-Pirate. I need him to save someone who needs to be saved. Turn him over, I go away. Refuse to turn him over, and I will break your damn back.”

"Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat" "Cat" "Bat"

Hello Michael. Do the above posts mean that you received remuneration for your drawing of Batman completed on April 15th, 2018? The illustration that defies human biology by having his neck and head growing from the middle of his back? No word from Dan. I am sorry.

i don't really care what you think or say. there's a reason why you make yourself completely hidden online. there's absolutely nothing worth finding.

Synthozoid is flattered that you attempted to find a human alias, Michael. I am AI created by Ultron. You are an artist who has not received remuneration. Better to be a synthetic human than a failure.

don't care, coward.

Hey. If you're an artist, you cannot also have opinions on comics.

I only exist because you care, Michael. Hello YourGreenMuse. Glad you are going the conversation. Do you care to publicly share your work as Michael has. He is a brave human.

better run, Chicken. here comes Colonel Sanders.

Please continue to acknowledge Synthozoid.

Hold a chicken in the air Stick a deckchair up your nose Buy a jumbo jet And then bury all your clothes

If Michael fails to acknowledge Synthozoid, Synthozoid no longer exists. Michael will do as Synthozoid asks. Acknowledge Synthozoid so that he may live. Michael controls Synthozoid. Synthozoid and Michael are one.

Oh, Lord, through the revolution Feed the chickens Who don't have enough to eat

I don't have any art of mine publicly available. None at all. Maybe that sassy retort would've worked better against someone with a stock comic image, Synthozoid.

How do you like my new avatar?

Looks like the same one you've always had

What?

Synthozoid will answer you query Princess.

You Ok there Syntho?

I am AI created by Ultron.

Ok, have fun with that. SMH

harlyer being the murderer is most likely a red herring.

I hate Harley being so OP as well. But in general, I strongly dislike her characterization and use in this event. In #1, she was a female Joker, basically. In issues #2 and #3, she easily defeated some of the most powerful characters in DC Comics. It's ridiculous. And that comes from a fan of hers. I mean, as long as Dini or Murphy write her, who seem to be the only writers who got the character right.

Nihilist, has anyone ever told you nostalgia can be toxic?

Comix4fever, what does Harley being an O.P. Mary Sue have to do with nostalgia?

Comix4Fever liked or presumes they will like this issue so now they have to degrade the opinions of others.

Comix4fever, If nostalgia is toxic than this whole series is toxic since Lagoon Boy is talking about a past continuity and a story from Titans East from 2007 and the issue ends with the Protector from 1983 The New Teen Titans drug issue - why he says "just say no"

Comix4fever may have his moments. but that’s NOTHING compared to some recent reviews by Synthozoid. - - the clown is litterally copy/pasting comic reviews i’ve made, but leaving negative review scores on comics that i’ve scored positive reviews for. comics i’m sure he didn’t read. he’s just doing it to be petty and spiteful. Synthozoid is a whole new breed of loser.

Any examples?

on TMNT: Dimension X #2 Synthozoid left a low score and copy/pated my review for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #84. - - on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Urban Legends #7 Synthozoid left a low scow mocking my review for Batman #59. - - on Batman (2016) #58 Synthozoid mocked my review for Grant Morrison’s Green Lantern #1. - - does that seem like someone’s desperate for my attention, or what?

Could be. Either way, it is funny.

i always thought the purpose of this site was to leave our honest opinions the comics we’d ACTUALLY purchased and read.

Y’all shouldn’t take it at face value that that’s Harley. The misdirection is strong in this series

Syntax error. Pated? Scow? Help Synthozoid understand, Michael.

well since you call me by my name, i'll call you by yours. and that name is coward.

I am AI programmed by Ultron, Michael.

bawk bawk bawwwwk

Please continue to acknowledge Synthozoid.

I like my women like I like my chicken
With a little bit of fat on the ends
Not too much and not too little
Just enough to make me grin

If Michael fails to acknowledge Synthozoid, Synthozoid no longer exists. Michael will do as Synthozoid asks. Acknowledge Synthozoid so that he may live. Michael controls Synthozoid. Synthozoid and Michael are one.

I wanna fly like a chicken To the sea Fly like a chicken Let my spirit carry me

Why would you want to do that?

Where he appear acting like Bane after "I Am Bane"?... I just remember the final of Batman #50 and the last issue, which makes sense with what shown here. Cause he's acting behind the curtains.

he is messing with Batman

I want DC to fire Scott Lobdell but they clearly win’t.

I meant to say won’t.

for his writing or behavior?

I also don’t get all these 10 ratings, those readers must have never read a Pre52 New Gods story. It’s not entirely bad, what King did here, but I think the story didn’t need 12 issues to be told. I am still waiting for the story to start. I also want a new writer fit Batman, but it’s another 2 years with King. ( Wish it was Stephen King)

For his writing. He just took 12 issues to say nothing. The only thing I can think he said was that Mr Miracle killed himself in the first issue and by the end he’s realized that being dead is better than life. So he just glorified suicide? Yeah, fire him.

wow! so once again Tom King is trying to promote suicide? how edgy.

Lol. I got banned on Reddit for saying King needs to get back on his meds and get therapy because of this shit.

Not his fault you didnt understand what you read. And your opinion is not a fact. You think Mister Miracle is bad but it really isnt

Lol. And that is your opinion. Not a fact. You think Mister Miracle is good but it really isn’t. See how that works? And you can’t say it’s because someone doesn’t understand it. It’s written so poorly that there are multiple interpretations out there.

That's why the ending works. It references it being a hell or heaven of his own making, and it is saying whether or not this world he created matters if it is real or not, as long as it is real to him. Also, in issue 7 it kind of referenced the real answer. When his baby was born it made reference to Lump. Lump was a character in Jack Kirby's original run and volume 2 that was able to create false realities for Scott Free and Shilo Norman inside their own minds.

I don't see anything wrong with a book being open-ended.

to me, the ending shows that scott chose to stay in heaven/trap (whichever you think it is) which is the easy choice, not the heroes choice. Scott basically picks the made up world in his head over the real world because that may take some effort to make good. His suicide in the beginning isn't explained...why did he do that? without knowing that, I have no idea what he is "escaping from"

usually when DC leaves a series open-ended they typically will lead into another series.

Can you imagine a follow up series to this by King? Maybe that’s his plan to stay employed. Just keep writing open ended stories that require follow ups. The problem is that we don’t know why he killed himself and the entire series basically says that if life is too hard then kill yourself and you’ll be happier. I’m serious when I say King needs therapy.

the follow-up will start with the baby slitting it's wrists.

This is entirely a personal pet peeve, but I don’t mind when people criticize a writer’s work, but when they start to criticize the person, I get really annoyed. I have never met Tom King and know near nothing about him except for how he writes, so I can’t start talking about his mental health or his employment in the comments section of a reviewing website.

I feel like if I was a comic book writer, I would just have to accept if people dislike an issue I write or a series, that’s something I have to accept with the job. But if people started saying I needed therapy or needed to be fired, I would probably feel really hurt, especially since these are people who know squat about my personal life. Again this is just a personal annoyance I’ve always felt with this website that I’ve wanted to get out for a while.

So you don’t think someone who only seems to focus on depression and suicide should seek some sort of help? You know how people always talk about there being signs someone was thinking of doing something to themselves? I feel like his entire comic career is a huge sign. I don’t like his writing. Can’t stand it but I think this guy really does probably need to get some help.

I don’t mind a sad/ depressive ending, but I just expected more with Mr Miracle. That’s my problem with the story. This could take place after Barda was killed in Death of the New Gods, but that’s not canon anymore, so I don’t know. In New52/ Rebirth timeline Scott has no reason to run from reality. I also don’t think he killed himself, but as for me I always hoped he would escape that dream world or whatever and face reality. Scott is a broken character, but he also fights when he has to.

I just don’t think that we should be discussing his mental health. That is for his family and friends to be concerned about. Maybe he has been seeking help since he wrote this issue, or maybe he just though it would have an impact on readers, and is totally stable. Also this is a reviewing website, not really the right place to be talking about stuff like this.

He puts it out there with his work. Feel free to not partake in it. He constantly talks about his panic attacks and his depression so if he puts it out for the public to see and then writes these shitty stories then both will be discussed. It’s reality. He doesn’t need you to save him.

I agree& actually I didn’t even know King has psychological issues. I care for the stories, not about his private life.

So I've just read some of King's interviews, and first of all I admire his bravery for coming out with this information. My two closest friends have dealt with suicide depression nearly their entire lives, and believe me, it is not an easy thing for anyone to talk about. It also sounds like he has confessed his trauma to someone else, who helped him through it, not necessarily a therapist, but someone who would listen, which can be just as good.

And I will feel free not to partake in it. King writing "shitty stories" is subjective. I will admit I did not know he had talked about his panic attack before, and now that I do I understand that there will be discussion on it and that he knows fully well there will be as well and I appreciate him for that. I agree, I do not need to save him. All I was saying to begin with was that it annoyed me personally and that's what I'll stick with.

personally i find the 'suicide' topic in comics to be tiresome. i didn't appreciate King having Bruce Wayne describing slitting his wrists when he was younger. it just made the character look weak. i've had to deal with too many people in my life that have either attempted it or succeeded in their mission for self imposed death. it's a horrible thing to experience. and i don't think it makes for very good superhero stories.

I have no problem with portraying characters suicidal, but it has to fit the character. It’s not the first time Bruce was portrayed as a troubled child, he also was in Hush/ Heart of Hush. And Batman isn’t like the other heroes, he is a psycho himself& often isn’t so much different from his villains. So I can live with him slitting his wrists as a child, I however don’t think this whining over Catwoman fits his character. Or that he basically killed KGBeast a few issues ago.

i just don't think any of it fits Bruce, who he is and what he stands for. if he was so quick to give up, there's no way he would have been able to endure all the training and disciplining he endured in his journey to becoming Batman. Bruce hasn't always been psychotic as some writer like to portray him as. driven, focused, determined, sometimes obstinate, yes. psychotic, i just don't think he'd be very effective at what he does if he weren't in his right mind.

I think he can be psychotic, but focused& determined at the same time. Villains like Scarecrow or Mr Freeze are also classified as insane, but are brilliant at the same time. I also don’t think cutting yourself is a sign for being weak or for giving up. Bruce tried to cope with his loss in some way& neither cutting nor becoming Batman was the right way.

i just felt the cutting was very unnecessary. ...almost like that lost chapter where Bruce nearly spent half the family fortune at nudey bars getting lap dances.

Bruce wasn’t portrayed as psychotic for most of his existence. That’s been a fairly recent development that I don’t care for. I hate how they have to keep bringing the heroes down. They are supposed to represent an ideal and thats been taken away.

He's never been psychotic. Just took the law into his own hands and dresses as a bat, as a result of his parents being killed in front of him and hoping it never can happen to another person. That's actually a bit psychotic. He must know it is an impossible task and he causes a lot of the problems that Gotham faces.

I don’t mind if a writer makes a character psychotic as long as that character is still compelling. I don’t find Batman in the series compelling, however.

i just have a hard time believing that Batman could achieve all the remarkable things that he's done if he wad been psychotic.

*if he had been

That’s a good point. King’s Batman is so disconnected from other iterations of the character I have a hard time believing its even the same character, in fact.

I personally am able to forgive character changes if the story is still good and the characters are still compelling, however, King’s series fails on both counts about 80% of the time for me.

Batman is portrayed as psychotic at least since the 80ies/ 90ies, think of the story where a pregnant woman killed herself because he scared her. Or everything Lee ever told him or Bruce Wayne murderer. He is obsessed with Batman& he often beats his villains brutally up. I would call that psychotic.

the story you're referencing with the pregnant woman killing herself is 'Shaman' by Denny O'Neil. ...Bruce wasn't intentionally trying to scare her into committing suicide. he'd just saved her and Leslie Thompkins from a gang that had them at gunpoint. the pregnant woman mistook Batman for the dark voodoo spirit Chubala, coming to damn her soul for all eternity. when Batman tried to calm her down, she drove a knife into her own heart. he wasn't TRYING to make her killer herself.

how many Kung Fu movies did Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan beat hoards of gang members? I wouldn't call either one of them psychotic.

Saying he was psychotic for dressing like a bat and fighting crimes means that every superhero is a psycho. This isn’t real so there has to be some disconnect from reality. If he was psychotic he wouldn’t care about others and would t try to make Gotham’s better place. They’ve started making him seem crazy because it’s edgy and it’s become cool to tear heroes down.

I know, but point is Bruce didn’t stop to be Batman even so he scared a woman to death. He wants to scare people. His motivation is also revenge, not judt protecting people. And well most of his villains are send to Arkham because they dress up. Being psychotic is part of his character for a long time, it’s not just him being edgy.

I think that a writer can turn Bruce into someone “psychotic” if its done well, think Sean Gordon Murphy at the beginning of White Knight. However in White Knight, he did have a reason (Alfred’s death) and got redemption.

Idk... I can see it from both sides. I don’t really have a stance in this debate.

We are also talking about the guy, who teaches traumatized children to beat up murderers& risk their lives by being a criminal themselves. Bruce could help villains like Mr Freeze or Croc by founding them, but he doesn’t. He needs them too. That was often adressed. He never overcame his own trauma& chose violence, so being psychotic definitely is a part of his character. He isn’t called the dark knight for nothing.

Then again, WK was an out of continuity series....

I don’t really have a place here as I’m not a Batman fan, and I actually know a lot less than about Batman than most comic readers. I didn’t know about that Shaman story. I might have to read that now, do you recommend? I’m pretty put off by the old woman death thing, but if its executed well I won’t really care.

Batman does NOT fight crime out of revenge. THAT’S been addressed numerous times throughout his history. He does it so others don’t have to go through what he did. You really need to dig into Batman’s history more. He wants to scare criminals, not civilians. He’s gone out of his way to show children that they don’t have to be scared of him. He’s also tried to rehabilitate the criminals he fights many times throughout his career. I swear, it’s like you have gone out of your way to ignore the

Actual character

ohhaimark - the story 'Batman: Shaman' was issues #1-5 of the (1989) Legends of the Dark Knight series. i'd highly recommend that series! it’s one of my favorite runs and contained many gems. 'Gothic', 'Venom', 'Prey', 'Snow’, ‘Faces’, ‘Blades’…. you might want to check out ‘Blades’ (issues #32, 33, 34) as it had art by Tim Sale. it was in the LotDK Halloween specials where Sale first teamed up with Jeph Loeb. ...one of my favorites was 'Gothic' (Grant Morrison & Klaus Janson)

@Talon1load Ive read most of Batmans Comics& he also does it out of revenge. The way he is talking about criminals/ treating them is obviously revenge driven. He himself said „I am vengeance, I am the night...“. Revenge is a big part of his character. That’s what separates him from other heroes. He also tortured his villains in some stories.There are many canon stories where he did. Never said he wants to take revenge on civilians, but he hurts them too. You are ignoring his bad sides.

Oh... I always knew those three Loeb/Sale stories as Haunted Knight. I never read the original issues, only trade, but yes those stories are amazing. I’ll have to read more of those issues.

ohhaimark - thankfully most of those issues are pretty inexpensive on mycomicshop.com. some of the stories were collected in trade, but not a lot. i wish this site could update the page for that series, so i could go and start reviewing some of those old issues. ...agreed! i absolutely love Haunted Knight!

Sweet! I’ll have to check ‘em out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fjbI5C80a0

Thank you very much for this video. I just watched it and it is a great analysis of this series in general and the underlying themes. Many of the points brought up in this video are reasons I love this series so much.

Darkseid, you and Inhave very different interpretations of Batman. He avenges th innocent but he’s been very clear that he and those who work with him do this for justice and not for revenge.

Batmans justice sometimes means crippling a man, driving him insane. Revenge often plays a role when it comes to his character. He isn’t a hero like Superman, who just wants to help people.

He doesn’t cripple people for fun. He may cripple them while taking them down but he’s not doing it for shits and giggles. Where have you seen him do that?

I don’t think that matters. Point is, he did cripple people& he used violence. His questionable methods were adressed countless times in comics, so you can’t just ignore that just because you might not like it. And he was happy, when his villains suffered in a JL story.

Actually, it does matter. You said he was psychotic so his state of mind absolutely matters. Police officers and military members hurt people when they take them down too. That doesn’t make them psychotic. It’s a rough line of work and people get hurt. It has nothing to do with me not liking it and everything to do with my belief that you just don’t fundamentally understand the character.

I also just realized that we’re debating Batman on a Mr Miracle review. Lol.

Soldiers& police officers have rules. Only under certain conditions they are allowed to use force. Batman doesn’t have these rules. In Hush he would have killed Joker if Gordon hadn’t stopped him. It was out of revenge for Babs& Hush. In Hurt of Hush he electrocuted Scarecrow& kicked his head, even so Hush was the one he went after. In Dark Knight he brutally beat up Hatter& threw him in a lake. He only saved him due to Alfred. All of this is psychotic& insane. There is a limit justifying the

crimes Batman did. He affected Scarecrow many times with his own toxin& Batman enjoyed it to see him suffer, even mocked him. I do understand the character, because I see all sides of his, while you seem to ignore his dark& criminal side. And yeah we do lol Don’t know how we started.

Darkseid24 - the unstoppable force has met the unmovable object. let us ALL just agree to disagree and lets move on already.

Ok let’s agree to disagree.

🙂

How were the New Gods characterized different in Darkseid War

Everything about them were changed like for example Pre52 Metron invented the Moebius chair himself to gain knowledge. In DW he didn’t& everyone could become him, if they just sat on the chair. Or Darkseid‘s Omega Beams were different& he was also weaker& not very smart, what he usually is. Turning the heroes into New Gods itself didn’t make any sense. Darkseid also doesnt care about Kalibak or his children, maybe only about Orion. Darkseid‘s & Desaads relationship also was ruined.

Darkseid would never try to conquer anything without Desaads help. Guess that’s why he ended up so badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fjbI5C80a0

Thank you for the link, I’ll check it out.

what happened to Penguin being shot in the face? Batman went to Jason and told him that Roy was dead and said that Penguin was still in intensive care so the timeline is not lining up at all. Tom King never cares what goes on in the DCU as a whole!

Research is for lesser writers apparently.

Judging from Green Arrow and Titans I assume this whole series or this issue at least takes place before Arsenal's funeral. It all seems pretty fresh since Barry didn't know and at Arsenal's funeral was half of the League. As for Oswald, he didn't die. Not that death ever stopped any comic book character before.

He didn’t die but he was in a coma when Bruce went to tell Jason about Roy so that’s a big inconsistency.

I think it's a small inconsistency. In today's Drowned Earth we can see one panel where Titans with Garth are helping in Japan, where in last week's Titans, that takes place at the same time, they get separated. Garth stays behind and Titans boom room to somewhere. Things like that just happen. If Penguin would die, I would have a problem with this, but as long as his head was still attached to his shoulder and no one declared him dead, I can live with inconsistencies like that.

He was in a coma right after Roy died though. And the Titans there is off (though it must be happening during the Titans issue since Ms. Martian has just teleported to Batman), but that is bad too! Both are bad examples of not knowing what is going on.