Great review, nailed it man. You should be writing for one of these actual review sites

DC I do not think that he is giving a good pay, and I doubt that Zdarsky will accept, he really asked to write to Red Hood and is more of a Marvel writer I hope they offer Red Hood alone, I think he could do great things. But you are absolutely right Batman needs better writers, they are destroying one of the most interesting characters in DC

Quinn is a psycho and that's how she works best. Putting her in the batcave was the height of stupid writing. She's not DCs Deadpool she's an unstable psychiatrist that became enamoured with the Joker while treating him in Arkham. How does a control freak like Batman take a gamble on someone so mentally unstable? She doesn't work as a lead character.

@Mingthemerciless THANK YOU, this is exactly what I've been saying for the longest time. Batman disregarding her murderous past doesn't make sense to me at all, I don't know why their pushing so hard for her to become a anti-hero type character.

Harley Quinn's reinvention (re-investing?) is about $$$$. DC believes a psycho of the right gender=sales, as having "right" to be a psycho due to gender persecution. Their sales tell them a lot of public buys this. DC also increasingly supports Unsanity Collective msg, its OK to be somewhere between Sane and Insane, that is, "Unsane." And in an Unsane world, almost everything goes, reimagined as "freedom." This is why we have Batgirl pushing The Batman to go join with the Unsanity Collective.

The thing is Bats that Quinn wasn't persecuted into falling for the Joker but rather her damaged psyche allowed her to. But I agree with your point. Punchline on the other hand is merely an unstable groupie.

But Tynion had to inflict Ghostfarter on us as well as Clownshoes because he wants the IP incase some of the mud he flings at the wall happens to stick.

From what I understand Detective started to craterr during Tynions run and I expect a similar reaction early in his run on the main book especially with the gamble on retroactively leading to Future State line wide.

Ming - Good point: "Quinn wasn't persecuted." In Quinn origin story of 2013 blames her family (problem always family, always "someone else's fault," other than taking responsibility for your own actions). But yes, Intellectual Property argument (I bet DC would debate) and "expand the audience" mission going on. AT&T-WB/(DC)/ Disney (Marvel) debate is over what they can put on video/movies.While DC dotted-line to Warner since 1969, ATT 2018 purchase was game-changer.

Same issue with Marvel purchase by Disney in 2009. We now have movie coming up with Jane Foster as female "Thor." ATT/Disney, etc. want to reframe Comics and Comics Characters for video/movie marketplace "audience expansion." So ATT will also ignore Harley Quinn choosing to be a mass murderer. She has the right identity, and will get the right sales in the only market that they think matters in terms of $$$$. Not only just reinvention, but re-investing in comic character to get best ROI.

Had high hopes for this book, instead we got a whiny Beta Ray Bill

I don't like the art most of all, the faces are particularly annoying.

It gives me the impression that Tynion knows that he is not good at taking over Batman and this will explode soon, in return he is obsessed with bringing a thousand new villains at once and to make fun of them in new comics, the creation of new characters, as long as you give quality and this is something that is lacking in DC with the exception of Zdarsky's writing

What's really funny is that I remember several interview with Tynion expressing his love for the Gotham characters .And I felt part of that love in his Detective run. But now it seems his main concern is pushing aside all those characters and that whole gothic look of Gotham for all these punk characters that honestly don't fit are not very interesting in comparison to the characters that are being pushed aside.

*and are not. It seems to me he took a note from Bendis and he's creating all these characters in the hopes that he can get that sweet money that comes if they make appearances in a CW show or something like that. This has become a big problem in comics today, in my opinion, creators are more interested to "leave their mark" and eventually monetize that rather than create good stories.

I think a big part about the addition of new characters is that they will get returns anytime they are used in a story or collection. They profit off of new characters personally which would be good if the characters were compelling but so far Punchline, Ghost-Maker and Clown Hunter have all been... nothing. Snyder did the same thing, it's pretty disappointing.

Exactly @Hex and @Merlyn are not making interesting characters, it's all rushed and mediocre, I don't know what's happening but it seems that the writers are giving a blind blow or just doing a bad job copying a little here and there in a careless way.

When's the last time a newly created character actually resonated and became popular with Batman readers? Damien Wayne? And that's because Morrison used the past relationship of Batman and Talia to raise the stakes for Batman. Damien didn't catch on immediately but grew on the readers. Tynion is just switching on a sausage maker and not giving any of the sausages any genuine connection to Gotham.

I agree with hex as well...Snyders original characters were as poorly received as Tynion cardboard cut outs are here. They have no value and the readers see it.

Tynion is not the writer to handle DCs most lucrative title. DC surely can see this? First of all they must abandon the Future State foundation they're laying company wide. It's a bad idea and dull as heck.

With respect, while I agree with a lot of the commenters, I don't see this as a "Tynion problem," but a "DC Comics problem." DC has been told AT&T, and told its writers, find a new audience... OR ELSE. So all of them are looking to create new characters to "expand" the audience. They figure they HAVE you as a reader. You're not going anywhere. So logic, reason, loyalty - phaw! It is all and only about $$$.

For example, take a look at new "Harley Quinn" writer, Katana Collins, for "Batman White Knight" insanity. "Best-selling writer" Katana Collins is a romance story writer and "go-go dancer." I mean, seriously, do you think she cares Quinn was a psycho killer and The Batman's mission? Please. This is a great chance to make $$$ and get publicity. And good PR for DC... to "expand audience." That is the heart of Future State, no matter who the writer is.

You're pretty right on there. Tynion is trying to make a name for himself by creating all these crazy characters, most of which wear out their interest factor within 2 issues. You saw how they peddled Punchline expecting her to be the new Harley, but when that didn't work he decided to make an insane Anarky in Clownhunter, then There's the one he really hopes will get big, Ghost Maker, reminiscent of Azrael in the '90s. Just failed modern day copies.

Yep, originality is not Tynion's strong suit. He just made some punkish versions of other existing characters. And so far none of them have been a success.

Too bad it won't stop him from trying. :(

I don't know what it is about Taylor but I find his books awfully predictable and boring, I suppose his humor not connecting with me plays a part into it as well

I think the hero line is that Bruce would want dick to keep a low profile when he isn’t in costume as it goes with this situation. And, I fully expect that Alfred left the money to Dick because of what was going on in the Bat-Family the last year, (he updates the will each year he says), knowing that Dick would distribute it out to everyone when appropriate

Yeah, the humor is super cringe and he insists with it, he doesn't let up.

And that was another Alfred mistake, as if being Dick was fair enough to watch for others besides Damian and Barbara. PLEASE

I'll be honest, if they hadn't overrated this number so much, I would have completely passed it by. Although it was going to be great. But is not.

Bruce managed to make a fool of himself before while not in costume whenever the situation needed him to act. In a Clark Kent-stumbling-on-to-save-people kind of way. So the whole line would make sense if Bruce would be the type of hero who cares so much about his identity that he would turn a blind eye to injustice. But that's not who Bruce Wayne is, regardless of Taylor trying to send that message because he's obsessed with hating billionaires.

And as a Jason fan I know for a fact that Alfred would never leave him like that. He always understood Jason maybe more than anyone else, I don't buy the whole leaving everything to Dick and leaving Jason in the wind, even if Dick would take care of him. He wouldn't be that impersonal with someone who was like a son to him. There's a pattern here already, Taylor tries to diminish the well constructed Batfamily relationships between other characters just to make us feel like Nightwing in special.

The bat family has been a mess for years! Well constructed? Damian is a killer again, Batman almost beat Jason to death for what he did to the Penguin, They thought Tim Drake was dead and he came back and split! Even Barbara called them all out in that awful Castelucci Batman #50! In the last couple of weeks even - Damian is back with Talia and Jason looks like he killed a man! Give the book a chance! It’s one issue and you are writing it off as Tom Taylor destroying the Bat Family!

As an aside, we have no idea what he left the rest of the family either

The relationships are well constructed, yes. Damian was never a saint to begin with, honestly I think he's been too restrained for a long time, even though I liked most of what Tomasi's done with him and I didn't like the direction DC took him in these last years, it's really not a huge stretch for a kid who's been indoctrinated that the world is his to rule. Batman didn't beat Jason to death, yeah he gave him a rough fight, but it's not like that's the first time that happened.

I can see you're a Taylor fan because you're way too defensive for this book. I should say, I loved his Injustice, he basically got me back into comics with his Injustice but ever since then his writing has gotten worse and worse to the point I'm wondering why I'm even trying. Cringey humor, endless rants about billionaires and capitalism, doesn't give one shit about previous character relationships in a very Bendis-like kind of way, way too many cheesy moments.

He does write action pretty well, I'll give him that. Btw, are you the guy from Weird Science DC Comics?

So you think that since rebirth, the barn family has been strong? And I said ALMOST beat him to death... and now he’s killed a Joker and a guy last week! Batman won’t even work or talk with Jason because he said he’s a killer!

That was Bat Family obviously

He will work and talk with him in the next issues, he always does eventually, regardless of their ideological differences. He hates that Jason throws in his face all his shortcomings and stand for a lot of things Bruce despises but at the end of the day he's still his son, the son he failed and he'll always try to make up for it in the end.

I think that overall the Batfamily has some strong relationships forged in time. The relationship between Alfred and Jason is a solid one, it was before Rebirth and it's the same after. I think that Taylor dismissed that with this thing.

I know he will, but that’s the Bat Family right now. Since Tom King barely acknowledged them, Ric Grayson couldn’t remember them, etc, they ave been in disarray and hopefully, they come together in all the books. Maybe this is Alfred’s move to get Dock to bring them together like he does. I don’t know. Again, it’s one issue and we don’t know what the rest got... I asked Tom Taylor and we’ll see what he says

After 2 years of ric grayson, I was happy to get this issue as a reset of all that shit and now Dick can move forward

Wooow stop, did I kill a Joker in canon? does that influence Urban Legends? because I didn't see that mentioned. Can you be kind enough to explain please @WeirdScienceJim

Jokingly though, Dick deserves it because he is the best Robin and my favorite character in comics

sorry Jason kill Joker?

That I understand, especially of you're a huge Grayson fan, these last few years have been torture. Still, in the process of trying to uplift fans like you, Taylor diminished the relationship between Alfred and the Batfamily and he diminished Bruce's character. And I pretty much hated that. I didn't particularly enjoyed the rest of the issue either. You've rated this with 10, I can see you're a fan, cool. I'm not, I'm sorry to say. Other than the art I didn't enjoy anything out of it.

hahaha and I'll tell you something @WeirdScienceJim is valid, it's your tastes. What is not valid are the neurotics who complain and insult that you do not have the same tastes. There are many of those.

@Winterisnear I suspected the same, nobody has clarified if the Bats know that it was a blank shot, it was not even an actual assassination attempt. Jason didn't deserve such treatment, but it was a good drama without a doubt.

I think that it was supposed to be an actual assassination attempt but DC wouldn't want to lose one of the best villains they have and so Lobdell had to come with that crappy and convoluted "explanation" with rubber bullets or whatever. I think that at the time Jason was angru enough to kill Penguin then and there but the again, that's a DC problem, they don't have the guts to kill major villains.

We already know how DC takes care of its villains, that is why the Joker is untouchable. So they as he does not have the slightest idea of how to carry the continuity. That is why I am not going to give this book or another undeserving book a chance, with the obvious exception of what involves Jason Todd. It would take a good story for me to invest in that DC comic, they really disappointed me.

Jason didn't kill the Penguin - Batman called him a Killer in urban legends and i don't think he means from before since they worked a lot of that out since

Tom Taylor did say the whole family recieved the same amount at the will reading, including Julia. Who knows if that's actually true or if we will ever see that at all!

@Winterisnear they already dealt with what he did with the Penguin and Oswald didn't die. The reason I said it's the Joker is Batman let Jason back into Gotham (with rubber bulllet rule), but now won't work or talk to him because he is a "killer". The timeline is still a bit wonly but it seems like it can only be the Joker. Zdarsky's Urban Legends story feels like a side-sequal to Three Jokers the way Babs is talking to him too. Who knows with Infinite Frontier timeline stuff though

to find out, maybe Chip will clear it up in his penultimate issue, we'll have to wait. It's great that Chip asked the story of Hood, I think after Lost Days (I love it) and Three Jokers is the best thing that has been written about Red Hood, obviously it is not perfect but it is very good, there are many repetitions in the dynamics Buce and Jason, you know some Remake.

yep - I would like a lot of things cleared up going forward with an open timeline, there may be some changes

Woow friend, you got going the polemic, what an interesting post you do.

It wasn't on purpose, I'm just tired of people who praise everything Taylor writes when in reality he really isn't that good.

I feel the same about Tom, but the one with the last name King!

Kind of agree with you there. There are a lot of King books that people just love and I find them very, very underrated. Including some that are pretty much universally acclaimed, like Mr. Miracle, which I for one didn't find that good. Still, every once in a while he manages to surprise me so I have to give him some credit. But one thing I like about King and I don't about Taylor is that he seems to try to elevate comics to another level while Taylor just revels in cringy internet humor level.

IMO, King tries to elevate HIMSELF to another lever and at this point, his books are all following a tired formula of mysteries without clues that end in ambiguous endings. It's actually funny because I like Tom Taylor because he writes comics to write comics while guys like King (IMO again) end up being embarased to just write a fun comic. Like they want to prove they are above the medium when they are at fancy dinner parties

But he has a ton of fans!

Agree again, he is very infatuated with himself and has a pretentious style that most of the times, if you strip it of his tired artifices, the essence of his writing is pretty thin. And yes, the payoff for a lot of his mysteries is rarely worthy. He's trying to be the next Alan Moore and in his mind he probably he thinks he is but that's not going to happen. And yes, his fans are very aggressive and condescending because he makes them feel smart even though most of the times they're not lol.

But that's something I think King and Taylor fans have in common. If you look at the reviews here, there's a guy who thinks he "triggers the Lobdell fans" and there's another one that joins him in his disturbed fantasy. And it's not my first dance with Taylor fans, something I've noticed it happens with King fans too. After all, the two Toms are pretty good friends at least on social media, why should their fans not be annoyingly similar?

Present company excluded of course, it doesn't matter that you obviously loved this and I hated it from the bottom of my heart, I have no problem with someone having different tastes than mine, as long as he has his arguments and he's not being insufferable about it.

Lol, I just noticed I said King's books are underrated, obviously I meant overrated. :))

For me I can stomach Tatlor better than I can Kings self applauding style. He succeeded in keeping me from buying nearly 85 issues of my favourite character. That's some seriously bad storytelling. Taylor's at least has something of a feel for Dick Grayson.

I still maintain that despite their financial woes DC can get quality writers on the flagship books and get readers excited again. But you must start thinking vision and stories not gimmicks and constant resets.

Having said that I've read some previews of what Marvel is planning with Reborn 2 and they may be about to step on a rake themselves.

@merlyn LOL! erase that whole conversation then - We Agree!

gimmicks are the worst, but resets can work--- if you don't keep messing up and needing to reset over and over! DC keeps messing up, so I have my fingers crossed

@merlyn you are do right that King tries to be Alan Moore but comes out as Alan Less!

@Weird Science Jim - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah! MUCH less!

I was hoping that would get a chuckle!

@Weird Science Jim - more than just a chuckle, good sir. ...that earned a well deserved Belly Laugh!! 😂😂😂

Zdarsky definitely needs to do more DC work, really hyped for his JL book now

Now compare Zdarskys effort here with what Tynion is doing on the main book. Tynion treads water at best. His own creations are bland and interchangeable. DC has to be realizing Batman needs a new writer at this point. Granted this is technically a red hood story but the quality difference is glaring.

The Grifter story is fun for me because of the characters connection to Inage comics. DC still trying to make Quinn an A lister is foolish. The character is a psycho gangster moll. Her own movie tanked. I didnt even bother with her entry.

The Outsiders was fun and I'd love to the team handled better because I've always enjoyed the concept.

I'm no fan of Zdarsky (incidentally I strongly dislike his DD run and people here are giving me a hard time for it lol) but when someone writes a good story I'm going to give him all the credit he deserves. Now I don't know what his pitch is for JL but sure, I'll give it a try. @Ming: I don't think Tynion gives a shit about his Batman book, I'm pretty sure of it by now. His Joker #1 was great, I think he's focused on that and on the Batman book he's just winging it.

@Ming: The bigger problem here is DC letting him do this to its best character. But that's probably because the company is in financial trouble and they can't afford a big name on the book as a writer.

@Merlyn: Wow, nearly everyone I spoke to has been liking DD. If you don't mind me asking, is there any particular reasons for your preference And yeah, it's obvious at this point the main Bat title has become a factory churning out new OC's every 2 issues. I think my dream creative team for Batman now would be Cates and Stegman. As long as we get the Cates who has been delivering top-tier stuff at Marvel and not him on Crossover

I just disagree with Zdarsky's views about society and he peppers those views throught the DD book. Also, he shits just too much on Matt for my taste.

*throughout

It's a very good observation on Tynion with Batman. It does look like hes not interested in the main book and more engaged with the Joker story. Its almost like he needed Joker War(which was terrible) to get him positioned for the solo book.

For me Tynion has never been good with Tec or Batman. Snyder started great and you can see where he disengaged from interest in Batman. Tynion has never hit the mark.

I understand your beef with Zdarsky but it's clear hes got a better handle on the human side of heroes and puts them back to a street level. That's where DD and Batman work best when the city is as much a character as its heroes and villains. That's the Batman I enjoy.

Agreed DCs money woes are an obstacle but there's good writers who aren't A list that would elevate Batman and Superman books much better than what Tynion King and Bendis have done. Let's see what Zdarsky does with JL.

I'm already tuned out on Tamaki after seeing her drop the ball on Dark Detective

And Ridley is not the answer. I just read and interview with him on an upcoming superman story hes doing and he just cant get go of the racial angles and activism. I don't want that garbage in titles I go to for escapism and good stories. I know you can insinuate some into a run but to constantly push that is just one note and crushingly boring.

Is asking for good storytelling too much?

@Mingthemerciless - After seeing that horrible self-insert fanfiction Tamaki is doing with Starfire, I can't support any of her books. Also, agreed on Ridley. Why do Hollywood people come into comics with the notion they know how the medium works? See J.J Abrams for example

JJ Abrams is proof of the Peter Principle. He glows onto already successful properties and ideas and writes fan fiction. Hes a company man.

Typo: gloms onto.

Both are really bad ideas. They need to focus on stories of him as Superman, I would live to see them kill of Jon...Maybe have Superman IDing him in the morgue with an X ray showing where a villain stuffed Jon's cranium. lol

myself, i prefer "eh" over the frustration of what "Ding-A-Ling" King was doing to Batman. 😂😂😂