Bigot

You didn't like the Kevin Conroy story?

Yet another example of the word "cringe" being used in place of a cogent thought.

This review is cringe.

Look man I rip on the 10/10 reviews for being horseshit. But you gotta let the lgbtq people have their book too. Just don't read it, I just don't wanna see this only be rated 9/10-10/10 and anyone who says otherwise is a bigot or a homophobe etc. etc. But this book was definitely not a 1/10 lol

Crying about "corporate" in a week with "movie synergy before it got delayed" Flashpoint Beyond and "the biggest mega event of the year" Dark Crisis is some real galaxy brain energy

@Fizgoog Since you are going there, statistically speaking, straight white males are SIGNIFICANTLY higher among pedophile numbers than any non-straight person of any other gender or ethnicity. Historically speaking. And that's not conjecture. It's in many texts throughout history.

@Fizgoog. You're just a homophobe and a bigot and something should certainly be done about you on this platform and any others like you that participate in the kind of rhetoric that you all spew.

Promoting conspiracy that's led to a historic government crackdown on a group of people, with the intent to erase their identity, subvert their free will and take away their rights is cringe.

Sounds like the exact thing many countries across the world fought against in the 40s. Actions and events that inspired comic writers and artists to create the very heroes we all read. In fact I remember a young Jewish man who created a teenage web-slinger, a blind Catholic boxer, an African king, and group of mutants. All of whom come from different walks of life and have every right to live as those they are persecuted by.

Looks like the Matt Gaetz account got banned

The guy who gave DC's summer event comic a 9.0 says this book about gay superheroes is corporate cringe.

Lol at least this ones up front about why you shouldn't take his review seriously

Yo, that's a great review. You have a lot of great points IMO, some of which I did not even thought of, but after reading this I completely agree. As a person, who's also not the biggest No Man's Land fan(part of the reason for which is that I read the old tpbs, which IMO were terrible), I feel like from the start Tynion's run been inspired by NML, but his final products are way worse, which actually makes me appreciate NML more.

The thing about this Tynion run is that it's just a repeat of other Batman stories. To be fair, 82 years of Batman stories (being constantly reprinted) make it hard to be original. But he's ripping himself off with his Victims Inc Redux. There's No Man's Land, there's the Anti-Batman from the Animated Series (former schoolmate who learned Ninja skills combined with Jean Paul What'shisname who was Azrael). There's the Bats loses his money from several stories in the 1980s and and 1990s.

Yeah, you have a great point.

Quinn do you think the story is so poor because painters themselves into a corner with Future State? Tynion is a mediocre writer at best anyway but having to steer the bat titles towards a setting that fans mostly disliked is not conducive to good story telling. And from what I understand Ramaki over at tec is already gearing up the zombie Bane from Death Metal which was the lead in to Future State. Am I missing something here?

Typo...DC painted itself.

Future State is a symptom of DC’s problem. They are not writing stories based on chacterization. Rather, they are chasing the dragon and writing stories that they hope young people will like. They are going the Young Adult route, and YA has come and gone. This alienates old goats like and does not get young people. A double loss.

Quinn - I think we are still seeing permutations on Didio's original 5G, which was supposed to merge with Hypertime to make all past continuities valid (e.g., Infinite Frontier). Future State is aspect of the 5G thinking, with the long term goal to replace core characters, at a pace that will not rock financial boat to quickly. But for Batman, lot of DC writers are hostile to Bruce Wayne, the values, and ideas that he represented as Batman.Just not the $$ to permit FS DC to kill him off.

You both make great points. Its clear that DC has fumbled FS which the skeleton of 5G. I think YA audience wants Batman not a replacement and DC seems to be slow in realizing that. Yes I can also see DC slow walking the replacement of flagship characters in an effort not to lose the core readers but it must know it will lose the base and not expand it with new readers? Agreed this current crop of writers seems to be hostile to Bruce Wayne and I know where that stems from but I ll hold back.

With FS being so poorly received I'm hoping we re simply getting the stories that were teed up to follow it and they'll taper off and restore a more enjoyable status quo. If DC thinks it can phase out the the big three and replace them they're about to take one severe hit in sales area. Like Ronnie Doi said...play with fire you burn your fingers.

Getting Alfred back would be the first smart move. Then getting Wayne's legacy back from Foxnext. Probably the dumbest move was having Lucius turn heel and keep the Wayne fortune. Ridiculous and panned by most regular readers.

There is also a "hate Bruce Wayne" movement going on in social media, Twitter, Medium, etc. Twitter featured it as "trending" on 5/31. DC has to struggle with (a) Making Money, (b) Being Popular to people who don't/won't buy comics. My perception is that DC has decided to straddle the middle.

And yet we all know that these twitterers are not regular buyers of the titles. Their opinions wont affect book sales or movie attendance. Why appease a group of people that don't buy your books but will still go to the movies featuring Wayne as Batman? I know DC is having money woes but they seem rudderless right now. Nolans movies all had roots in different story runs as have the MCU movies so far. What is do difficult about publishing a great core product for the brand?

Its pretty bad when I'm more excited about Batman89 and Reptillian coming out than the two main bat books. I think the last quality run for me was court of owls.

Funnily enough I just read an article where Garth Ennis is beating up on rich Bruce Waybe who as Batman beats up poor people and institutionalizes the mentally I'll. Hes writing Reptellian. You're right Bat the writers are hostile to Waybe but they sure don't mind the paycheck he provides. By the way where does Ennis suggest Joker Dent and Freis should be after they kill a few dozen people?

And I dont really mind Batman beating up some "low income" goon that threatens the safety of other not so well off gothamites. But Ennis thinks Batman should try being a social worker. Yeah that'll sell books and get Ennis another Batman gig.

These writers and twitterers don't see past "billionaire" Bruce Wayne yet that persona is a facade. He uses it to protect a noble mission. He not only uses his wealth to help him in his mission hes used it for gotham infrastructure medical clinics outreach and prisoner reform. Ad Batman hes stepped to innocent men from being convicted of crimes.

I'm sure the writers hostility takes a back seat to the paycheck they get from the gig he provides them.

Well, idk man that seems pretty normal for Garth Ennis. I mean, he was always open about how much he despise big chunk of the superheroes and the genre (with few exceptions), both irl and when writing. Also having in mind how big of comics writer he is, I'm sure that both dc and marvel would want him to write some bigger series, but it looks like he does not want to do that. So yeah, I think that he will write the story, because he wants to write the story and not because the paycheck.

As for the rest, you are probably right.

Absolutely Ennis is notorious with his issues with the medium filtered through his world view. Alan Moore is another one. I brought it up because of the timeliness of the comments and how they back up what Bats said about Batman writers being hostile towards Bruce Wayne. His wealth seems to be an issue for them his methods are mentioned too but find me a superhero that deals with criminals psychos and terrorists that doesn't have to slap a few around.

I mean...we are still reading comic books right?

Yeah, totally, the world of Gotham is a fictional one and has fictional problems, which demand fictional solutions. I would even say, that the way he deals with his criminal is pretty tame. He never breaks his code and rarely does more than what's needed. But even if we remove all that, Batman's story is a story of one guy, that tries to bring order and justice to his city with all his power, because he experienced it's horrors firsthand.

So it's way more important for him to be effective than to be moral( the way he scares the criminals ecc). I think that's how Batman is usually presented , and he is not supposed to be always in the totally morally right area IMO. So yeah usually I don't agree with opinions such as Ennis's on batman being a social worker and so on either. I just don't think, that he is doing Batman Reptilian for the money. But I could be wrong.

I was speaking in broad terms when I mention the paycheck for a lucrative property like Batman I agree fictional city fictional "reality"to that city. Also I agree that his code is actually more a liability than a solution. But his adherence to it exemplifies his strong will and mind. In a way it's quite enviable.

I think that's the greatest appeal of the character for me. Hes so unmoving in his prosecution of his war on crime and so determined to never let what happened to him affect anyone else that he will use every resource and reserve he has to continue it. He never wants to admit hes just a man.

That's why Alfred is so important. He went from being a comedic figure very early on to being a connection to Wayne's humanity and a surrogate father. And if course Batmans "Q". When Wayne is losing himself Alfred reminds him to come back. When his sons cant understand him Alfred keeps them together. I love how Batman walks that edge. The playboy image is the true mask he uses it be able to do what hes compelled to do. Writing him off as merely a rich guy beating up poor people is not who Wayne

I think that was quite a great analysis and I completely share your thoughts. With a character like Batman, there is just so much to like and explore, but if i have to pick a specific trait, I would probably chose too his will and determination to defy the all odds in his almost childlike quest against senseless pain and suffering. The interesting thing is that in many ways he is still a broken person, because that one night, but he continues to try to make things right.

I think, that's extremely inspiring. So much, so much so it can help people in their dark times irl. I also completely agree with your last statement. I will bring up NML again. There was a moment, where he tried to be a normal rich guy, because the whole hopeless of the situation. He could have lived as a rich man, without looking back, but that was just not him and he was aware. His real face is Batman, not Wayne. But even as Wayne, he helps the city a lot. All his money go to help the cause.

He even funds the league. So the question is, is Batman really rich, if he spends most of his money for the benefit of the others? Also Batman spends a lot of effort trying to scare the thugs. So it's clearly not his intention to beat them, but sometimes it's necessary.

I think we re both moving to the same conclusion Wayne does not pursue wealth to be rich but rather he seeks to preserve it or even grow it as both a means to do good and to prosecute his war on crime. I think in that sense he serves justice and peace. I think also his father's legacy is important to him even though Alfred has stepped into that role in many respects.

Yeah, I think that we totally reached the same conclusion. Yeah, his father's legacy is definitely very important influence and motivator for him and it was really nice, that you mentioned it, because sometimes that gets ignored. Both him and Alfred are important for different reasons. One helped create Batman and the other keeps him in check. Good conversation, man.

Agreed fun conversation.

Your take on Ghost Maker is head-on. He's just a wannabe. And all he was trying to do was impress Harley out of hopes of bedding her. Truly pathetic. If Tynion is trying to sell this character to us he's doing a pretty bad job of it.

I completely agree. Not to mention but they don't speak Spanish in Brazil, they speak Portuguese.

So that makes it even worse. Not only do we not understand it but it's the wrong language entirely.

Supposedly shes from Bolivia, but it might as well be anywhere. The character is completely unlikeable.

For some reason I thought it was Brazil lol. I'm not a fan of the character either. She's totally pointless and we have too many Earth lanterns already. She could very easily be edited out and nobody would care.

Uktsr, since you are not widely read on The Batman, just an FYI, the character wearing The Batman costume is not The Batman character at all. He is a Marvel-style character pretending to be a detective, not unlike the butler Alfred depictions from the mid 20th century. The Batman character is completely different mentally from this character.

What makes you say he is Marvel style?

Uktsr - the closest Marvel character to The Batman was the 20th century Reed Richards of Fantastic Four. But even the brilliant Mr. Fantastic was not as calulating and strategic as The Batman. The Marvel characters (angst-aside) are largely action characters. Classic The Batman is a general in a war against crime. As much as he acts, he also thinks more. I see this Batman character as deductive, but not much of a Thinker. The thinking part is the essential power of The Batman.

Even Adam West in the 1960s camp version Batman TV show was a calculating thinker as the character. It's a key differentiator from other modern costumed characters. Last century, the early characters were "thinkers," because few had "superpowers." The Shadow, Green Hornet, The Batman all come from the same era of costumed heroes using their minds as well as their determination to fight crime.